Freetricity.com

"1. A 100ah battery might well provide 10 amps for 10 hours, but after a few charges and discharges it would no longer be of any use. For deep-cycle batteries, a discharge of 50% is the maximum that is recommended if you expect the battery to last more than 2 or 3 years."

*** No inverter will allow the battery to totally discharge and most, like ours shuts down at 11 volts.***



"2. Here is a quote directly from the freetricity.com website:
"3 to 5 = 10 x 10
Three to Five Hours of Wind Gives you ...
Ten Hours at 10 Amps = 10 Kilowatt Hours"

The clear implication there is that the E2D will generate 10 Kilowatt Hours of electricity in 3 to 5 hours."

*** 10 hours at 10 amps is 10 kilowatt hours!

10 amps x 120 volts = 1200 watts or 1.2 kilowatts. 10 hours of this is 12 kilowatt hours.

We state 10 because of the inverters power consumption and the fact that we do not totally discharge the battery.



"Another point worth mentioning is that power rating of a renewable energy system is the amount of energy produced by the renewable energy source, and NOT the rating of the inverter."

*** That's not true (again) as we advertise and sell a system!

does a controller for wind come as part of the system?

does a controller for the photovolaics come as part of the system?

does the wind turbine have a max power listing at a given windspeed and tower height?

with instantaneous power ratings it is much easier to do the math and find typical per day energy production

james Alt-E staff

-- modification, after noticing last post -- thanks regarding controller  -- is that for the wind or solar?  if for wind, does that mean it is c series acting as diversion load controller?  if so is diversion load available?  -- if for solar also c series - and are there specs available for module?  thanks

Thanks John sorry for the confusion but I am trying to be careful so I stay on the education side of things. The most productive way to handle this is to say that I at this very moment have two of these units and I want to get them working or know for sure that they never will. Freetricity is now using a name brand controller. It is not included but I have that, am using it and it appears to be working. I have done like Steve says and touched the wires together and it sparks. As I said if you put a meter on the turbine while it is free spinning it will put out 40v in 20+ wind. I am curious if that spark really does indicate 10amp? I will try the 12v light test you recommend. Maybe the amp clamp will give indication while lighting that bulb? Thanks again for the help and I will let you know what happens with the bulb.

"-- modification, after noticing last post -- thanks regarding controller  -- is that for the wind or solar?  if for wind, does that mean it is c series acting as diversion load controller?  if so is diversion load available?  -- if for solar also c series - and are there specs available for module?  thanks"

The solar panel provided varies in size (2-5 watts) and has other functions besides providing a safe float level charge to the battery.

Yes, it is the c series.

Steve I would agree that something is wrong. Like I indicated I am not sure what kind of indicator that spark is of amps but yes even at one I have had plenty of wind to charge a battery. Trouble is how do I figure this out? The battery works with a standard charger and it works over and over so it is eliminated. Freetricity has stated to me directly that they tested both of my current units and they were working. Both units behave exactly the same. I have tried direct hook up, I purchased a diversion load unit from another source and I now have the xantrex controler and the results were the same with all of those on a number of batteries. If this was going to work it should have. Now James here again I must appologize for my lack of knowledge. What I have was not expensive at all. It is a simple digital amp meter from Lowes. You hang it over the hot wire and it reads the amps. It works fine for example when you use it on wires coming out of your home breaker panel. Will this type meter not work here?

Troy,

A few issues here:

1) You cannot charge a deep cycle battery with a standard battery charger without damaging the battery.

2) A simple hydrometer test (as done by your battery guy) will not tell you if the battery is good ... as in it can take a charge.

3) Do you have deep cycle batteries? What kind ... make and model?

Because again, either the batteries were destroyed before you hooked up the controller of they were destroyed by using a normal car battery charger.

The spark is telling you it is creating electricity (free) so the only thing it can be is the battery!

Perfect. I am going to bet you are correct on that Steve. Now my multimeter on the other hand is relatively expensive. It has five function areas. DCV, ACV, ACA, DCA, and something I don't know probably ohms. Anyway the DC setting should work yes? My setting options are 2, 200m, 20m/10a, 2m, and 200with a backwards y. My wire connection options are red v, black com black A and black 10A. Lets just call the hot wire from the turbine red and the negative wire black. Now can anyone tell me what to hook where to get a reading or do I still not have the right equipment?

You seem to be running in circles Steve. How does the above compare with what you had to say in post #65?


Will a Sears 2/8 amp 12V home battery charger really cause more damage than a device producing more than 20 amps at 48V when placed across the terminals of a 12V battery?

Troy,

It looks as if you indeed have an ammeter that can measure up to 10 amps which is probably much more than what your E2D is producing. Ohms is a measure of resistance. In Physics V = I x R where V is the voltage, I is the current, and R is the resistance measured in ohms.

To measure current, your meter needs to be placed in "series" with the positive lead coming from your E2D.

Connect the +ve lead from your E2D into the 10amp input of your ammeter and then connect the common lead out from your ammeter to the +ve of the battery that you are trying to charge.

If you can charge the battery with a battery charger and it holds a charge then there is nothing wrong with the battery.

John

Troy, you may want to have a look at the manual that came with your meter or give me the manufacturer and model number and I can look it up.

Your meter should be set to DCA which means it is measuring DC Amps. If you get a reading of zero, then do it again using the 2 amp setting instead of the 10 amp. If the current reading is higher than 10 amps then you will probably see the display on your meter flashing which indicates that you are getting a reading higher than what your meter is set for.

Don't be surprised if you have to go all the way down to the 200ma (that's milliamps or one thousandth of an amp) to get a reading. 200ma is 0.2 amps.

You may also have to use the +ve lead of your meter as the input and the 10amp lead as the output, but the little manual that comes with the meter should make it clear how to measure current.

John

Come now John ... do you really think 200 ma would create the kind of spark he has already acknowledged seeing?

Perhaps a beginner class in electricity would help you?

I can recommend ITT. They have student loans available and job placement assistance.
 

Okay!

I don't mind educating you but John is more of a challenge;)

Geeeze Nick!

I thought I was referring something helpful!

I'll be more mindful of your concerns in the future.

Steve,

I work in the electrical engineering field and have for most of my career.  I work with power distribution systems for the railroad industry, I do everything from load analysis for DC emergency lighting systems to 1.2MW 3 phase power distribution.  I have never purchased anything from altenergystore.com, but found this site because I was looking for a xantrex power monitor.  I've been watching this thread for the past several days and it's really making the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end.

Your website mentions that the average household uses 40KWh of energy per day, and that in moderate wind conditions, the E2D can supply 25% of that power, which is 10KWh (40Kwh * 25% = 10KWh).  10KWh over 24 hours works out to a continuous output of 416.66W (10,000w / 24h = 416.66w).  416.66W works out to 30.19A at 13.8v (416.66w / 13.8v = 30.19A), the typical float voltage for a 12v deep cycle battery.  Can your product produce this much power continuously in moderate wind conditions?

Your website also mentions that you can get 10KWh from each charged battery.  From our calculations above, we have determined that 10KWh is about 30.19A at 13.8V over a 24 hour period.  According to your website, you supply a group 27 battery with each kit.  A typical group 27 AGM battery is 100Ah at a 20 hour discharge rate.  This works out to 5A for  20 hours (100Ah / 20h = 5A), at 24 hours it would be 4.17A continuous (100Ah / 24h = 4.17A).  This is assuming that everything is 100% efficient.  For the 10KWh per battery statement on your website to be true, you would need a battery rated at 724.56Ah (30.19A * 24h = 724.56Ah).  At the very least, I think that it is misleading that you don't mention this fact on your website, as a single battery that large will be quite expensive and difficult to find.

Here is a list of references if they are of any interest to you:

Ohms law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohms_law

Watt's Law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt%27s_law

SI Prefixes (for converting kw to w):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix

Float and charging voltage for a typical 12v battery (AGM is included):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_acid_battery

Typical Group 27 Battery Specifications:
http://www.trojanbattery.com/Products/ProductSpec.aspx?Name=27-AGM

Reference to Freetricity regarding KWh per day usage of a normal home and claims of producing 25% of that usage:
http://www.freetricity.com/whatcan.htm

Reference to Freetricity regarding 10KWh per charged battery:
http://www.freetricity.com/whatis.htm

Reference to Freetricity regarding the inclusion of a group 27 battery in each kit:
http://www.freetricity.com/howmuch.htm

Please feel free to check my math and my references and let me know of any errors, please include references to your facts in your response.

-Nathan

First off I want to thank Nick. I have never bought anything from his company and the fact that he is letting me try to work out my problems with another companies product is pretty awesome. I hope I am helping you keep this thread on track Nick.

Now back to work. I am going to have good wind a little later today. John before I was not smart enough to read my book on my meter and know that I had things correct but after getting your directions I went back and the book agrees with exactly what you said on hooking it up. So far this morning I have only had about 5mph wind. Now I will say that hooking the unit up in series that is giving me about 7.5v. So far my apm reading is 0.00 but I am going to wait and report after wind is at least 10 and also when volts are 13ish. One interesting note. I have a 12v tail light like John suggested. I am getting a little spark when I touch that but no lighting. Thanks again for all the help on here and I am really hoping to get a definitive number today.