Freetricity.com

97 Posts
Nov 23, 2007 05:44 pm
Re: Freetricity.com

Speaking on a positive note, I appreciate this forum.  The people at the alternative energy store are knowledgable, helpful, and try to answer questions and concerns in a responsible manner.  I learn much about alternative energy from the technical posts here, but learn nothing from negative "he said, she said" postings, and character bashing. As with any store, if you are dissatisfied with the performance of a product, then spend a bit more and upgrade to something that will work for you.  If you are dissatisfied with a store, then don't shop there anymore.  All things are variable and you generally get what you pay for. It is all about the choices we make.  This alternative energy field is fascinating, productive, and deserves some consideration.  Hopefully, people can learn to work together towards this goal.  I have found the store's service to be excellent, and the prices reasonable.  (and, that is just my opinion) :-)
 
12 Posts
Nov 23, 2007 06:17 pm
Re: Alternative Energy Store Scam

Interesting response given this has nothing to do with a "he said/she said" scenario.

This is about one company using its so called public forum in an attempt to harm another company that is its competitor.

How else can you explain or justify the first post about Freetricity starting with "for a good laugh ..." when referring to them?

And that this was posted by an employee of the alternative energy store who did not identify himself as such.



FYI - After doing more research I have decided to offer them my services on Monday.

 
109 Posts
Nov 23, 2007 09:33 pm
Re: Alternative Energy Store


  Hello again George!  I hope you had a good Thanksgiving.  = )

Read James response, he knows what I am referring to.

The original statement "want a good laugh ..." was not only a negative attack aimed at eliciting a negative response but was also submitted in a very dubious way.

  I have searched the forum for 'laugh' but was unable to find a post from James.  If you have found said post, if you could either give me a URL or directions on how to find, it would be most helpful in me getting a handle on the issue. = )

That original discussion (started by your employee) has made it's way into the www by its google/yahoo positioning to the determent of Freetricity.

  Are you talking about this thread?  If so, it wasn't started by any of our employees.  If another thread, either a URL or directions on how to find would be most helpful.  Smiley

  Thanks George!
   -Nick

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/
 
12 Posts
Nov 23, 2007 10:29 pm
Re: Alternative Energy Store Scam

Posted by James Cormican on Today at 02:52:49 PM

"that being said, you are right that if i decide to give my opinion on this or any public forum, i should make sure that i identify it as my own."


"* The originator of the thread "Sue" is not an employee of the Alternative Energy Store"

But, what positional url link and how did she come by that link in order to post a response to your forum ...

We need to be fair here, what you say will be used.


.


 
109 Posts
Nov 24, 2007 09:04 pm
Re: Spirited Discussion

"* The originator of the thread "Sue" is not an employee of the Alternative Energy Store"

But, what positional url link and how did she come by that link in order to post a response to your forum ...

  Hello George!

  I fear I am probably not completely understanding your question?  I will try to respond as best I can, but please feel free to correct.

  I don't believe that she is posting a reply to another post, but rather posting the email she sent in to freetricity.  I believe she is posting on this forum to help inform others of her experience with the company.  As to how she found this site, I am sure there are several search that will lead you here, including "alternative energy forum".  How exactly she came here, I do not know. = )

  I hope that helps!
   -Nick

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/
 
12 Posts
Nov 25, 2007 10:45 am
Re: Exposing The Smears and Lies of The Alternative Energy Store

This one's going to cost you guys a bundle.

A bald faced lie:

"I've talked to a number of unhappy freetricity 'E2D' owners." Posted by Chris Brown (an alt energy store employee).

Two things:

1) When challenged to provide proof of that statement by the Freetricity rep he could not produce proof!

2) At the time of that post there were zero negative comments in this "so called" public forum about Freetricity.


Flat out "published" lies to harm a competitor is libel (defamation is my area of expertise) and subject to damages!
 
109 Posts
Nov 25, 2007 11:33 am
Re: Discussion

  Hello Again George!

1) When challenged to provide proof of that statement by the Freetricity rep he could not produce proof!

  I am uncertain what proof one could provide when talking about a conversation? 

2) At the time of that post there were zero negative comments in this "so called" public forum about Freetricity.

  I believe that this indeed a pubic forum by the fact that it is publicly available.

  Best Wishes,
   -Nick

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/
 
12 Posts
Nov 25, 2007 12:01 pm
Re: Exposing The Smears and Lies of The Alternative Energy Store

When making such claims the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim!

If it's a true statement (and we both know it's not) he has to produce and prove those numerous conversations.

Is it your contention that that Freetricity customers called Chris?

What are their names?

On what dates did these numerous conversations take place?

I suspect by sometime tomorrow afternoon your attitude will be far less caviler Nick!
 
109 Posts
Nov 25, 2007 12:15 pm
Re: Continued Discussion

If it's a true statement (and we both know it's not) he has to produce and prove those numerous conversations.

  Actually, I do believe Chris has told the truth.  He is one of our sales reps and talks to many people on a daily basis and has done so for nearly 2 years.  Given the pure number of people that Chris has talked to, I don't find it unlikely that he has talked to someone who has experience with the system he mentioned.

Is it your contention that that Freetricity customers called Chris?

  See above.

What are their names?

On what dates did these numerous conversations take place?

  Well, a couple of issues here.  We don't keep a log of every phone conversation, let alone one where we index it by topics discussed.  So don't have that information.  However, in order to protect the privacy of our customers, we would not reveal such info, esp in a public forum.

  You seem quite passionate about freetricity.  Do you have any experiences you wish to share?

  Best Wishes,
   -Nick

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/
 
12 Posts
Nov 25, 2007 12:36 pm
Re: Exposing The Smears and Lies of The Alternative Energy Store

Again, the burden of proof falls on the person making the statement.

I seriously doubt a judge and/or jury will find your defense (or the statement and its timing) credible.

But we will find out starting tomorrow.

You don't get to make up stuff or post unsubstantiated harmful claims without repercussions ... and that's where my passion lies.







 
12 Posts
Nov 25, 2007 12:41 pm
Re: Exposing The Smears and Lies of The Alternative Energy Store

Two things Nick:

1) Don't bother trying to erase that thread. I've already copied it.

2) You really should inform upper management of what's happening here. This is very real and it's extremely important (for you) that they are aware before they are contacted tomorrow.



 
109 Posts
Nov 25, 2007 01:11 pm
Re: Discussion

You don't get to make up stuff or post unsubstantiated harmful claims without repercussions ... and that's where my passion lies.

  Ahh. I fear you may have misunderstood my question.  It seems like you have experience with freetricity and from your responses it seems like it is a positive one.  So I was wondering if you had any positive thoughts to share on the product.

  Best Wishes,
   -Nick


AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/
 
1 Posts
Nov 28, 2007 09:27 am
Re: Freetricity.com

This post is directed to Steve Rays.

In september, you stated that Freetricity would be hosting a wind turbine function. Well, what happened?

I would like to know what happened and what each company had there as well as technical information.

Did it ever happen?

This part is directed towards Gearge Mc.

Its lawyers like you that are costing those of us in business so much money. You get rich off of frivoulus lawsuits.

So far, your remarks on here have done more to harm Freetricity that anyone elses, as it makes them look like they are sending out the wolves to "Stop" anyone who may speak out against them. Let them reply back, as they have done and go back to your little office.
 
109 Posts
Nov 28, 2007 09:46 am
Re: Freetricity.com


  Hello Dennis!

  Just to clarify a bit on the lawyer part/clear George, to the best of my knowledge, Alt-E has not been contacted or sued. 

  And as we've said in the past, we more than welcome any positive comments that people may have to say about freetricity.

  Thanks Dennis!
   -Nick

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/
 
163 Posts
Nov 28, 2007 09:58 am
Re: Freetricity.com

Dennis,

I don't think there is any need to address Steve and George as if they were two different individuals. lol.

The current website is even more amazing than it was before, and with plans to change it this week who knows what we are in for next.

It says 3 to 5 hours of wind gives 10 amps for 10 hours and that equals 10 kilowatt hours (sic). Nevermind that 10 amps for 10 hours at 120V would in fact be 12 kilowatt hours. The amazing part is that a small garden ornament windmill can produce that amount of power in 3 hours. It must be the bargain of a lifetime to have a wind generator rated at 4000 watts and selling for a mere $1200.

It's an outrage that Wikipedia would deny them the opportunity to share this with the rest of the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Pepees50

John
 
12 Posts
Nov 28, 2007 12:14 pm
Re: Exposing The Smears and Lies of The Alternative Energy Store

Nick,

I did communicate with Freetricity on Monday and presented my findings.

One of their partners is an attorney so they are going to run with this themselves although I did receive compensation for my efforts.

And to Dennis. It's never frivolous when one company attempts to harm another company through a fake public forum and unsubstantiated negative claims .

 
109 Posts
Nov 28, 2007 02:17 pm
Re: Discussion

And to Dennis. It's never frivolous when one company attempts to harm another company through a fake public forum and unsubstantiated negative claims .

  Hello Again George.

  I think you will find that this is a true public forum.  And if you can provide a link the the unsubstantiated claims, it would be quite useful.

  Best Wishes,
   -Nick

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/
 
33 Posts
Nov 30, 2007 11:12 am
Re: Freetricity.com

Hey Nick as one of the public let me see if I can change this to some actual useful information exchange. I actually have had access to five diffrent freetricity 1200 watt units. They all have produced voltage and the newest produce pretty high volts so long as they are unloaded. Now when you put them on a discharged battery it takes well over 15mph wind to get these units over 13v. This brings me to my question and where I hope someone might be able to help me. Even though 15mph is way over what I was told still I have the 13v. However I have had 18mph sustained wind at the level of the turbine for over 6 hours with no charging of the batteries. You can see slight rises in battery charge while the wind is up but as soon as it goes down the batteries fall right back down. If the volts are there why is the battery not charging? I have had the battery tested at Interstate headquarters by an engineer and I can charge it with a standard charger so it is good. I have seen the same results from all five units. Can anyone shed some light on this in a useful manor?
 
163 Posts
Nov 30, 2007 11:40 am
Re: Freetricity.com

Troy,

Measurement of voltage, to a great extent, can be meaningless in many cases. However, if you can stick an ammeter in line with your output to measure the current being produced then the power output of the unit will be the voltage (V) multiplied by the current (I).

To charge a battery the output voltage of your charging devices obviously has to be higher than the voltage of the battery. I don't know if you remember the old Vandergraph generators from high school, but they produced voltages in the thousands of volts. Fortunately, the current output was low enough to make the total power output negligible and hence it was OK to put your hands on it.

I suspect that the current (I) output from your windmill at 13V is in the milliamp range, ie less than 1 amp, and is not likely to give a significant charge to a battery over a few hours. However, I would be interested in hearing what your reading for current and hence total power produced is as my initial guess at what power it would produce was in the 5 to 10 watt range. That would give you a current (I) reading of around 0.5 amps.

John
 
163 Posts
Nov 30, 2007 12:15 pm
National Electrical Code

Troy,

One way of hazarding a guess at the amount of power your E2D produces is that it must (should?) comply with the National Electrical Code (NEC).

If we take a nominal voltage of 20V (for easy math, even though you are measuring it at 13V) then a 1200 watt system would have 60 amps of current.

To safely conduct a current of 60 amps, the NEC says your wire size must be AWG #6 minimum. Now if your E2D was provided with say AWG #12 wire, or the standard size for most household wiring, that has a current carrying capacity of 20 amps. That means that your windmill could not produce more that 240 watts (12V x 20A)and still be operating safely.

I don't know if it has one, but look for an Underwriters Laboratory (UL) sticker on the unit which will have a number on it that you can lookup to see what the independent test results on the unit were.

John
 
33 Posts
Nov 30, 2007 12:18 pm
Re: Freetricity.com

Hey John thanks but I need a little help. I can test loaded voltage with a multi meter by going from the hot wire on the turbine through the meter to the batt. However I have not been able to find a way to test amps. A standard digital amp meter reads nothing, but as I understand it that is expected when testing from the turbine to the batt. I have been told that I need a load and just the discharged battery will not work as that load. I do not know how to hook/setup a multimeter, or use an amp clamp in a way to give me the amps. I am also interested in any ideas you may have as to a fix for this. Is there a way to get the amps up to a useable level? Keep it nice here as I know I am new and no engineer. Thanks again for the help
 
44 Posts
Nov 30, 2007 01:05 pm
Re: Alternative energy store fools

"I suspect that the current (I) output from your windmill at 13V is in the milliamp range, ie less than 1 amp, and is not likely to give a significant charge to a battery over a few hours. However, I would be interested in hearing what your reading for current and hence total power produced is as my initial guess at what power it would produce was in the 5 to 10 watt range. That would give you a current (I) reading of around 0.5 amps.

John Bodden"

LOFL

I see the alternative energy stores master of misinformation is back!! This fool thinks it takes 4000 watts to charge a battery!!!

And FYI my ignorant friend: You cannot put 60 amps into a deep cycle battery at once. Our system charges at a safe and appropriate C/4 charge rate.

Keep in mind folks, this fool has been wrong about everything he has said about us and E2D!

- Ask a fool a question and you'll get a foolish answer. -
 
109 Posts
Nov 30, 2007 01:14 pm
Re: One last time

  Hello Again Steve!

  Once again, I will have to ask you to stop with the personal attacks on this forum.  I do welcome productive disucssion though.  To help illustrate what I mean..

I see the alternative energy stores master of misinformation is back!! This fool thinks it takes 4000 watts to charge a battery!!!

  The majority of this part is not welcome here.  Only the bit where talk about the 4000 watts is productive.  The "master of misinformation" and "fool" bits are not productive to a good conversation.

And FYI my ignorant friend: You cannot put 60 amps into a deep cycle battery at once. Our system charges at a safe and appropriate C/4 charge rate.

  Aside from the "ignorant friend" part, this is quite good and encouraged!

Keep in mind folks, this fool has been wrong about everything he has said about us and E2D!

- Ask a fool a question and you'll get a foolish answer. -

  And this whole part is unwelcome.  This will be my last request.  Any further attacks will result in your banning.

  Thanks for your understanding,
   -Nick

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/
 
578 Posts
Nov 30, 2007 01:19 pm
specs

is there published info available for these units

the wind turbine's power curve or an output rating and a certain windspeed?

the rated wattage (stc) or make and model of pv module supplied, or voc, vmp, imp, isc (assuming stc)

i have not been able to find any, but if this information is out there that would be great to know.

james Alt-E staff

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/

Tel: 877.878.4060 x107  or +1.978.562.5858 x107
Fax: 877.242.6718  or +1.978.562.5854
 
44 Posts
Nov 30, 2007 01:27 pm
Re: Freetricity Facts

Our E2D 1200 watt system is just that. A system!

The system is built around the battery. That battery as with all deep cycle batteries has to be charged at an appropriate and safe rate.

Because we cannot be certain that all customers will use the proper AGM type batteries we charge the battery at a rate that is safe for all deep cycle batteries. Halfway between a C/4 and C/5 charge rate minus 20% (for safety).

C/4 is the 20 hour rate divided by 4 (although we are almost to C/5). In a 100 amp hour deep cycle battery this would be approximately 22 amps minus the 20% or 18 - 20amps.

Another interesting fact regarding deep cycle batteries is when they are new that they will not fully charge until the batteries have been cycled 20 - 30 times (cycled = being charged and discharged).

Because of this it is not uncommon to see fully charged voltages of around 12.0 - 12.3 (out of a seasoned batteries 12.8 volts) the first several charge cycles.

E2D puts out (and yes John voltage does matter) around 10 amps at 21 volts at 8 - 10 mph and its max of about 48 volts at 24 amps at about 20 mph.

We have the lowest starting viable wind speed and the highest output of any manufacturer un 25 mph.
 
44 Posts
Nov 30, 2007 01:41 pm
Re: Freetricity Facts


It is also important to note that once a typical 100 amp hour battery is charged it will provide the user, through our 1200 watt inverter approx 10 hours of power at 10 amps. Ergo the 1200 watt system.

You wont get 12 (actual calculated hours) hours because the inverter uses some energy to do its job!

E2D version 3 was just released and our website is currently going through the necessary changes and updates that will provide the consumer more detailed information including a detailed pictorial of a complete installed system with the manual transfer switch.

Also, the Freetricity wind turbine challenge will now be held March 15th at the Pechanga Resort and Casino in Temecula California.

I hope to see the Alternative Energy Stores Reps there as well as reps from all manufacturers ... although I seriously doubt anyone will have the guts to show up and challenge us!
 
33 Posts
Nov 30, 2007 02:02 pm
Re: Freetricity.com

Hey guys thanks again John and James I do not want to get lost in the argument part of this. I actually have a couple of these things and I would love to get them to charge a battery if it is possible. James I have not found any published info on the units like you are asking for. John I will have to look for a UL sticker but that is a climb on the roof and open the cover thing that I will have to do another day. Do either of you have any ideas, suggestions or comments on my situation with amps testing?
 
44 Posts
Nov 30, 2007 02:29 pm
Re: Freetricity Facts

Troy,

Try the simple spark test! While the prop is spinning briefly touch the wires coming out of the system ... very very briefly.

If you see a spark it is working. You wouldn't see any spark under 10 amps.

 
44 Posts
Nov 30, 2007 02:31 pm
Re: Freetricity Facts

Briefly ... very very briefly touch the two wires together for the spark test.
 
163 Posts
Nov 30, 2007 02:44 pm
Re: Freetricity Facts


It is also important to note that once a typical 100 amp hour battery is charged it will provide the user, through our 1200 watt inverter approx 10 hours of power at 10 amps. Ergo the 1200 watt system.

Ray, 1200 watts is 1200 watts (120V x 10A) whether it is supplied for 10 hours or for 10 minutes. Now here are a few areas where your argument falls flat on its face:

1. A 100ah battery might well provide 10 amps for 10 hours, but after a few charges and discharges it would no longer be of any use. For deep-cycle batteries, a discharge of 50% is the maximum that is recommended if you expect the battery to last more than 2 or 3 years.

2. Here is a quote directly from the freetricity.com website:
"3 to 5 = 10 x 10
Three to Five Hours of Wind Gives you ...
Ten Hours at 10 Amps = 10 Kilowatt Hours"

The clear implication there is that the E2D will generate 10 Kilowatt Hours of electricity in 3 to 5 hours.

Now you are saying that the maximum output of the system is 1200 watts or that it can theoretically produce 6 Kilowatt hours of electricity in five hours. That's 1200watts x 5 hours.

Do you think you can make up your mind on the power output of the system?

Another point worth mentioning is that power rating of a renewable energy system is the amount of energy produced by the renewable energy source, and NOT the rating of the inverter. Anyone can purchase a 5 kilowatt inverter, but if you only have 2 kilowatts of solar panels then you have a 2000 watt system. No ergo required. In fact, its probably a good idea to have your inverter rated about 20% higher than the maximum continuous power that you are using.

John
 

Disclaimer and Disclosure

The Alternative Energy Store, Inc reserves the right, within its sole discretion, to refuse or delete any posting or portion thereof, or terminate or block the access to this forum.

The opinions and statements posted on this forum are the opinions and statements of the person posting same, and do not constitute the opinion or act of the Alternative Energy Store, Inc (AltE). The Alternative Energy Store, Inc does not endorse or subscribe to any particular posting. No posting shall be construed as the act or opinion of the Alternative Energy Store, Inc.

Click here for BBB Business Review

McAfee SECURE sites help keep you safe from identity theft, credit card fraud, spyware, spam, viruses and online scams
Desktop Website | Mobile Website

Share

Click on an icon to share! If you don't see the method you want, hover over the orange "+".

Feedback

What can we do to help you?

Please enter a summary
Sorry, the copyright must be in the template.
Please notify this forum's administrator that this site is using an ILLEGAL copy of SMF!
Copyright removed!!