William Clark's posts

my plumber will install a Sungrabber system with 80 gallon storage tank for about 6200.00; Az Pub. Svc. rebate will be about 1950 bucks, fed tax credit will be about 1650 and Az tax credit will be 1000.

this uses a 10 gal closed loop water medium, with a 10 gal. drain down tank and exchanges the heat in a radiator type of exchanger.

storage water is constantly run thru the exchanger until set temp is satisfied or roof loop shuts down due to cool temps, eg cloudy day or nightfall.

The pumps only use 2.2 amps, 120v, 270 watts, so will not pull that much from my off grid solar set up; does not run at night so batts not affected.

This is a new project for me and would appreciate any input you may have.

check out the Sungrabber system; it is an exchange system and is automatic based on ambient outside temp in comparison with temp of storage tank.

wind generation:

I have a new wind generator that I bought and never even took out of package. Would sell for half price; email me if interested at zzbill39 @ hughes.net

Preparing the house for lower elec. consumption is a great idea as one of the posters proposed.  I blew in tons of attic insulation..R49 in attic now, furred out and insulated walls, some are 18 inches thick now, foamed the semi flat roof and painted it white...will be installing a fireplace insert in the future.  Use propane heaters when absolutely necessary.

Use electric space heaters on occasion.

here in AZ, to get the rebate, you have to have an installer approved by the Electric Company to get your rebate.

Dealing with one vendor/installer is best, though more expensive because you get the v/i to back up his work and provide warranty work and he cannot say, " well you bought this part of the system elsewhere and it is not my responsibility".  So the onus is all on one company.

60 to 100K is not out of sight for what you want the system to do.  You could get by much cheaper if you scaled down the requirements of elec. usage.

I spent 40K with American Solar Electric here in Phoenix for a 3500 watt system.  I am off grid as APS wants 425000 to string elect to my nogottarancho.  we use a propane for cooking some things and a lot of electric cookers for most things.  I do have two converters so that I can pump well water using 220 volts.  this is working out very well.  I use about 1200 watts for the well pump.

Most of the systems (mine is Outback MX and FX) allow you to add panels, controllers, and batteries to augment your system without re-inventing existing system.
For example, I started with 8 batts and 10 Kyocera 125 panels; then added 16 batts and another 10 panels; then added just 8 130 panels and another controller.

Generator:

Most of the good systems provide for a generator input; mainly because you want to be able to maintain a 80 percent charge in your batteries or a specific gravity reading of 1250 to 1300;

On cloudy days and/or heavy electrical usage the batts. will need charging; if you are on grid the grid can charge up the batts.�  Generators are a lose/lose situation: for example, my genset is 1000cc motor and 15KW; cost 2800 bucks, rated only for 3000 hours, uses 1.6 gallons of gas per hour under HALF load.�  In our desert heat an air cooled genset such as mine has a short life.�  I was thinking about hooking up its own a/c this summer to cool intake air.

My first genset cost 4200 and lasted 1250 hours or about 3 years.�  they want 95 bucks an hour to work on it IF you take it to them...it weighs 400 lbs and not on wheels.�  My new one is on wheels and runs on gas, natural gas and propane.�  So far I like it.�  Central Maine Diesel is where I got it, no tax and no freight:www.generatorsales.com � There is a place in Lake Havasu, AZ: http://www.norwall.com/ that has the same one for about 1900 without conversion set up.�  Runs just on gas.

two things that can be pushing up your usage is the oven and the hw heater.

consider propane or gas oven and an on demand 19 gal 1500 watt hw heater from lowes.

as far as a/c you might consider evap cooler as a 5000 cfm will use about 600 watts an hour.

check out solarcity.com;

http://www.solarcity.com/solarlease/SolarCitySolar101.aspx

 they lease solar systems in Calif. for as low as 67 bucks a month providing they can retain all rebates.

I have a similar situation in S.AZ where I am off grid with a 3500 watt solar system:  I was using 30 gallon propane tank for on demand hot water; so I purchased a 19 gallon HW electric tank from lowes and turned off the propane tank; the 19er  uses a 1500 watt single element preset at 120 deg. and does nicely for a decent shower; I plan on installing another one in tandem and alternately turning them on for a total of 38 gallons for a real decent soaker shower; takes about 45 minutes to heat up before the element slips into on and off mode to maintain 120 degrees; Also, I insulated the tank double with a water heater blanket. I will put one under the kitchen sink for on demand for dishes.  Of course, multiple units cannot be run simultaneously...maybe two units for a total of 3000 watts between 10 am and 2pm on a clear day..., but the hot water is free and free fits our budget esp. after spending 40+ large on the solar set up. Summers are so hot that the water is hot enough so that no water heating is needed.  After the water is heated up, the tank does not seem to use that much elec. while just storing the hw. and hw. from one heating is still available...providing no cold water was introduced into the tank... the following morning after unplugging the unit at 2PM which is at the end of the apex of the solar optimum power  generation. 

whatever, dude

#1no knowledge, bec. my solar installer configured system with previous genset.

#2 either 120 or 240 for loads up to 12KW and surge to 15KW

both inverters show charge yellow light on when genset running at max.  will not charge with genset in slow rpm and shows a red flashing light.

with no substantial house load, eg pool pump, well pump, washer, 1.5 kw water heater...19 gal., genset will start to vary speed and sound ever so slightly, once the load is removed.

the rest, see #1;

I can see I have a lot of learning to do. Wish I knew more about it. 

We are starting our annual winter rains in So. AZ just now so am using genset more often now to keep batts above 80 percent charge due to extreme cloud cover. Yesterday at peak solar gen. time, system would only gen. 500 watts...this is from a 3.6kw solar system.

They are forecasting an inch of rain here so at least my panels will get a good washing.  Dust cover on panels will impede the solar gen. up to 50% in my 4 years experience on solar only.

thanks for the put down, but I spent 2600 for my new genset. and have solved the problem by using the 50 amp port. you have not qualified cheaper gensets in your post. do you care to qualify or are you more interested in putting someone down..

Please enlighten the rest of us and tell us what make, model, fuel type and KW capacity your generator is...that is if you even have one...more than likely you are on grid.

Re: clouds moving past solar site:
Yes, normal, my wattage will drop 1000 watts as clouds block sun and spike back up when sun comes fully out.  On cloudy days my 3500 watt system can only generate about 1100 watts.

I have not replied because last I checked the batts were 300 each new here in Phoenix.

Keeping the batts at non extreme temps also would prolong the life of the batts according to some mfgs.  I know that in AZ when my batts are exposed to 115 degree ambient, it is detrimental to them; but no way can I a/c my power house.

on the upside you could reach 100 percent theoretically;
but on the downside, where the wattage enters the system and does its power work on charging batteries and running your electrical needs in the home...and I believe this is what really counts...you would still lose up to 20 percent because of the things the wattage has to go throe to get to the end use, IE batts, washer, well pump etc.

You add more arrays to make up for the loss; eg 4500 watts of power would NET you 3600+ watts END power at optimum, actual, field working conditions.

I have a 3500 watt pv system, but the best I can generate is about 3100 watts around 2pm in the day. My best output is fall, and spring.  mostly, with a little dust on the system as is now the case, the output is about 2600 to 2800 watts. My one array did put out 1100 watts and is rated only 1040 watts. this was when new.  my supplier says I should lose about 20% of the power of the rated max for the panel. 

what is your price for the Trojans?

I have similar situation; my Kohler 12RES propane air cooled took a dive and I replaced it with a Generac 15KW.  I am feeding the inverter with 240V line from Genset. However, my breaker soon trips. 

Query: should I use the 110 volt line, 30 amp instead.

System: 28 kyoceras
2 OUTBACK inverters VFX3648, 3.6 kW, 120 VAC,
2 mx charge controllers
240 splitter for well pump

since the inverter is 120 vac, seems logical I should be using 120 to feed same even though my well pump requires 240.