Travis M's posts

Summary:
Since installing the off-grid components in my garage, I've used a Midnite Solar MNPV6 to combine the PV modules into one output, which goes into my charge controller.  The charger controller then goes out to a high-amp distribution block.  Going to that same distribution block are my 400w Air-X, sets of batteries, and the inverter.  To increase safety, and to be able to shut off sets of batteries for maintenance, I'd like to replace the distribution block with the part mentioned in the thread title- a MNPV6 with the disconnect feature.

My questions: can the front lid be opened and individual breakers turned on and off, rather than throwing the big switch on the front, shutting off everything at once?
Can the lid be opened with the front switch in either on or off position without changing the state of the breakers?

I like the added safety of a BIG RED SWITCH that can instantly kill all power off to the inverter, and the added benefit of being able to shut off individual breakers, which would be groups of batteries.

Thanks!

Great advice, Thomas!

The reason I plan on using multiple turbines is because 1) I can do them, and 2) redundancy .  A single turbine failing means no wind power at all.  I still haven't finalized that decision yet, though, and may still opt for a bigger unit on a tower.... still thinking about it (and the work involved).

I have sets of 4 batteries on my garage (two pair of two on each shelf), so I can take one set offline while the others are still in operation.  A great idea!  I'll have a bigger version of that for the house, where I can take one shelf or an entire rack offline for maintenance, leaving the rest of the batteries online.  Was going to use DC breakers and a breaker box, unless there's a better way.

Run extra wires: great idea!  I hadn't really thought of it.  I was going to run the wire through a large pipe, which would give me room to snake more wire through later, but I like your suggestion of running some wire through there in advance.  I could always tuck it back out of the way and label it so I know it's not connected to anything.

Generator: Agreed.  The generator only needs to be big enough to give the batteries a little lift.  The generator would be set to charge the batteries, NOT interact directly with the house AC.

As far as fuel, I haven't decided.  Was going to opt for gasoline, because I could use home-brewed fuel if there were a global economic problem or other major issue.  Propane comes in pressurized tanks, and I don't know how to duplicate that at home.  I do know how to make alcohol fuels, and I keep top lube on hand.

7.  The batteries will be in the basement, on open shelves (probably coated wire racks fixed to the wall so they can't tilt).  The basement room should have sufficient ambient airflow for hydrogen gas to escape.  Because it's a basement, it won't get below 32deg. (freezing) in there.  I monitored the air temps last winter to make sure.  Still, I'll probably add a little bit of insulation to the storm doors just to help out.
If freezing were an issue, what about a seedling heat mat under the batteries?  They're usually about 20w, and themostatically controlled.  I don't think I'd need that in my basement, but it might actually help my garage system in the winter.

9.  wire sizes: oh yea.  I've built an EV, and got some good education on wire sizes and fuses or breakers.

10. Be safe.  Definately.  I plan on putting numerous lock-outs and other safety considerations in place.  I've worked in some factories, which gives me at least some insight into how these kinds of things work (lockout/tagout, letting someone know what you're working on, etc.)

Great advice all around- thanks!

(http://www.altestore.com/descfiles/trace/inverters/xw/XW_overview.jpg)

I'd like to set up dual inverters as shown in the diagram.�  Twin 4kw inverters, set up for 110/220.�  I need the overall dimensions, and exactly what parts to buy.�  The product picture shows one thing, but the diagram shows something else (a lower shell to hide and secure wiring?)

Time to start building shelves, racks, setting up wiring, etc.�  I'd like to get the system set up with a minimum of PV modules this fall, and at least have the shed running its own power by winter of this year.�  Then, next spring, purchase the rest of the PV modules for the roof, and the wind generator(s) we decide on getting as well.

I have a lightning arrestor on my garage system, so I'll have to remember to add it to the "shopping list" I'm creating for The Big Project as well.  At what point(s) would I put them?  On my garage system (4 sets of 2, 12v/125w modules) I have all the PV juice going to one combiner inside, and the lightning arrestor is mounted there.

I plan on using 48v batteries going to a pair of Xantrex inverters.  As for PV voltage, I'm using 24v on the garage.  Using MPPT chargers, I can go higher, so I still have some deciding to do.  I plan on building in some redundancy, so I won't be going near 600v for the PV modules.  The distance for the wiring will only be from the 1-story roof to the basement, so I shouldn't have to go too big with wire size.
Will do.  I like my C40 for my garage, but the MPPT chargers allow a lot more flexibility with PV input power.

I'll probably be building my own mounting solution.  I'm familiar with working with metals.  The roof is corrugated metal, and I'll be running grounds at all four corners of the building.


48v battery pack.  I'm running 24v in the garage, and it handles the loads I have there well.  For the house, I'll put two of Xantrex's bigger offgrid/gridtie inverters together for 220vac.  I'm going to try to assemble a preliminary list over the weekend.

Thanks for all the information.�  I like the idea of splitting the array into multiple arrays with charge controllers.�  You said a minimum of two.�  For the 18 panels mentioned above, would it work to have 3 sets of 6 modules, each with its own charge controller?�  That way, there's a little "spare parts" redundency built into the system, not to mention a greater margin of safety.

http://www.deyemeracing.com/images/outbuilding_roof_alte.jpg

Here's a mockup (done in MS Visio) of the shed roof.�  The south-facing roof contains the PV modules, and the top edge of the north-facing roof is where I'll have three wind generators (AIR-30s and/or AIR-40s), the center-mounted unit sitting a little higher than the ones on the end.

I used Visio to create scale sized PV modules, and copied/pasted them to size them up to the roof.�  The Sanyo 210 is the one that takes up the most space without going over, and allows the modules to be oriented in the most efficient way (laid landscape, and I would tilt them up slightly off the roof at the top).

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I like the C40 controller, because it's been so reliable in my garage, where I'm using Kyo and Mitsu 12v, 125w PV modules (wired 2 in series, for four 24v pairs), going through the C40 and into my 24v battery bank.  I also like the C40 because of its flexibility.  So you can see why I mentioned it.  If a MPPT controller is what I need to make better use of these larger PV modules, that's what I'll go with.  I don't want to use much smaller modules (like the 125w I put on my garage) because I _need_ to maximize space use on the roof of my new building, and because I _want_ to minimize wiring (for every one 200w panel, it would be twice the wires to use two 100w panels).

I'm thinking the Xantrex (Schneider) XW-MPPT80-600 is looking like the way to go.  I'll add that to my spreadsheet... now, how many?

Now, let's say I have 18 of these Sanyo N210A01 modules mounted on a south-facing roof.  How many of the above mentioned charge controllers should I use?  What is the best way to combine them?  I'd rather use more combiner boxes, charge controllers, and smaller wires than have a big 4-0 cable with enough juice running through it to burn a hole in the moon.  Having them divided into groups also allows one "section" to be shut off for maintenance without taking the whole thing down.  Safety is more important than money.

I could also use SunTech STP190S, 24v 190w modules, which are dimensionally similar, and only 24v.

Thanks!

I have in mind to use Sanyo 32v PV modules, in series strings of 3, running through a C40 controller, set to 48v to charge a battery bank.  Will this work?  The controller instructions list a max voltage high enough, but do I need to more closely match the nominal PV voltage to the nominal battery voltage?  I'm a little confused, with the "odd" PV voltages coming out.  Seems like more of them used to be 12v or 24v, not 18, 32, etc.

Thanks!

The first step was taking my garage / workshop off-grid.  With 4 Kyocera and 4 Mitsu 125w panels, and an Air-X wind generator, the shop has been off-grid for four years now.
The next step was building a structure that would serve as the PowerHouse for the off-grid home.  About a month ago, our shed was finally finished, with the added bonus of a reinforced storm shelter (a must-have here in the Midwest!).  Power management (charge controllers and power inverters) and storage (batteries) will be in this basement room.  Solar and wind will be atop the roof, and additional solar and wind mounted separately as needed.

So here's where I'm at.  The building is done, save for interior wall panels, which won't go in until the DC and AC wiring is complete.  It's a blank slate.  Ready to go.

Now, it's time to design the power system.  I intend to use a hybrid of wind and solar.  The building is 16 x 24, with an 8' overhang to one side, like a carport (for parking the lawn tractor in to keep it out of the sun).  That means 32' x 8'+ of south-facing roof for PV modules.  270 or so square feet.  Near the top of the roof, on the north side, will be wind generators.  One on each end, and one in the middle.  AIR-30 / AIR-40.  Before we take the house off-grid, we'll also install a generator, yet to be decided.

So, for those that have taken their grid-connected homes / cabins off-grid, what do you suggest?  The one thing I hate doing is... REDOING.  So I want to get it right the first time.

I want this thread to be specifically about setting up the system, not about things inside the home (water heater, HVAC, etc.).  We'll assume I'm in good shape there.  I'm just looking to maximize the power generation and storage with what's available.
I'll post again soon (probably over Christmas weekend) with a proposed parts list and schematics.
Any input is greatly appreciated!

That's a great point.  We installed the first unit on the opposite end of the house from the HVAC.  It made the biggest temp difference, but the lowest impact on the heating bill (since the thermostat was rooms away, closer to the HVAC).  By the time we installed the second one in the living room, it was already getting close to March.  Even then, the difference was clear.  Now we'll be able to keep the windows open longer into the fall, too?  Yay!

Well, you know what R&D stands for in China, right?
Receive and Duplicate!

Look up "air-x china" or similar in a search engine, and you'll find various importers selling the knock-offs, even using SWWP's own descriptions and images!

I'm glad to hear the GENIUNE ones are made right here in the USA.  Now, it's time to size up everything I need, build the parts list, and see what we come up with.

What I am considering on the outbuilding is 3 poles.  Two Breeze models (one at each end) and the AIR-X in the middle, mounted higher.

We'll be building the system next summer at the earliest, so there's plenty of time to wait for the newer models from SWWP.

I purchased and installed a Soutwest Windpower Air-X 400w 24vdc wind generator a few years ago, as part of a solar/wind hybrid system for my garage.  I really like it, especially on the cold, windy, cloudy days that make up a good part of winter life in the midwest.

We're finally getting ready to make the bigger step of taking the house off-grid.  My plan was to use a set of three wind generators- two AIR-Breeze, and one AIR-X, all mounted atop an outbuilding that will also house the other alternative energy components.

My concern is that I THOUGHT the Southwest Windpower generators were made in the USA.  I've seen evidence to the contrary, though, recently, and would like some clarification.  Are the AIR series gennies made in the US?  Are there any USA-made alternatives (looking for 1kw or less, so they can be roof-mounted- don't want to have to mow around towers with guy wires!).

Hi again Amy!

Here's what we did: I used the 1500G on the west (left, in the picture) area.�  The SolarSheat crosses over a wall, so it actually causes a good amount of air circulation back there, which is an additional benefit.�  The 1500GS (the other half of the two-pack) was used with the PV head from a 1000G, making a sort of "1750G"?�  That's in the center of the south wall, stretching across the living room, window to window.�  Talk about a tight fit!�  I couldn't just use a 1500G, though, because there's a decorative fireplace inside, and the vents would have been too close together.

The two units work great together.  We got them both installed by February, so we were able to get some cold-weather use out of them, but not a whole season.�  It'll be nice to see how much they take off our electric bill this winter.

http://www.virview.com/100004/files/solarsheat2-02.jpg

We have room for one more (1000G) on the house south wall.  It'll probably be next fall before we get it installed, though.

Amy,

Thanks for the quick reply.

It looks like I won't be able to use the 2-pak in the location I had originally planned, however I can use the two 1500's independently of each other.  To use the 1500GS, I need to add a replacement PV/Fan head, exactly like the one in the 1500G, an additional duct kit and wall diffusers, thermostat, and landscape rail set.  Basically, I need to make my 1500GS into a 12" longer version of the 1500G.  Can you put together pricing on those items for me, and e-mail me with a quote (I just ordered the 1500G+GS kit, so you should have my info on file)?  Thanks.

-Travis

I just purchased the twin-pack YSH SolarSheat (1500G+1500GS+install kit) air heater.  The instructions are... unclear, for lack of a better word.  Some details:
double-wide mobile (approx. 30'x72') home with long south-facing wall- room for multiple units!  All walls have plastic siding.

Questions:
1) should I cut the plastic siding away where the SolarSheat will go, or install it on top?  Seems like if I leave it in place, it would distort and possibly damage the siding it's on top of.

2) what size screws (#8, #10...) should I use for attaching the mounting brackets to the exterior wall?  It says to use your own screws, but leaves the rest to imagination.

3) are there pre-drilled holes in the mounting bracket for screw spacing?  If not, how far apart should the screws be placed?

4) I plan on installing the units sideways, so the PV module is not affected by the roof overhang in late fall and early spring.  Are there any special considerations to make for this kind of installation?

5) I have other areas of the south wall that I would like to install a pair of SolarSheat 1000's (don't have the 8' window-to-window width for a pair of 1500).  Can they be connected together like the 1500G+1500GS kit?  Can the fan be reversed on one of them, so they operate together in a push/pull configuration, controlled by a single thermostat, but powered by both PV modules?  Or alternatively, does YourSolarHome have plans for offering a 1000GS (no PV module or fan built in)?  I would just like to use a pair together for better heat gain, but having only TWO holes for each "set" rather than four (if they were paired up but acting independently).

Thanks!

That really depends on what you're trying to do with the gasoline or electricity, doesn't it?
An electric motor in a car doesn't generate NEAR the heat that a gasoline engine in a car generates in order to move either vehicle the same ten miles.  You use much less electricity to do the same intended work.  On the other hand, if your intention is to heat water, you'll find gasoline does a much better job than electricity for the price.

I have an AIR-X, in addition to some solar panels, providing power for my off-grid workshop.  What kind of question did you have?

Sorry to hear that.  Maybe a couple gas cans might have helped, as well as scouting out locations for E85.

As my teenage daughter would say, ROFL LMAO.
Seriously.  I have a '95 Dodge Dakota I personally converted to electric, by myself, in my own garage.  My garage has 8 125w PV modules, and can charge my electric truck once a week.  More solar and batteries, and I'd be able to charge it every day.  This isn't a long time in the future, in a galaxy far far away.  This is here and now.  Like anything worth having, though, it's worth doing yourself without waiting for the gubmint to come along and legislate it into existance.

That being the case, perhaps you should ask your congressman why we have such high tarrifs on sugar and ethanol imported from Central America.  The oil companies aren't "evil greedy", they're privately held companies that are in business to take your money and give you a product or service in trade.  That is all.

I promise I won't!

You're on the right track with all that, but the car makers are just following market demands.  The mass media scares people out of electric cars with the notion they might need to jump up one day and drive a thousand miles, and electrics take time to recharge.



Good for you.  Now buy Chevy S10, a conversion package, about $25k in solar and batteries, and you're done using gasoline for local transportation, period.

I have pictures in my album here of my electric Dodge Dakota.  Making electric vehicles isn't hard.  If the government one is nuclear powered or has laser beams that shoot out of it, THEN I'm interested.

Why not make small versions of these and sell them as electric scooters or go-karts (thereby circumventing traffic and crash test laws)?  Make a million bucks, it's the American way.

It could just be the static in the air, but I think I smell a perpetual motion machine...

I might have expected more, but they are for-profit corporations, right?  I didn't like the overpriced piece of garbage engine mount inserts that were available for my car, so I started my own business, making dual-durometer fiber-reinforced polyurethane engine mounts.

If anyone thinks the cost of solar is too high, I'd get started making your own.  There's plenty of sand for everyone.

The manufacturer of the battery should be able to tell you how fast you can charge and discharge it.  The more power you push or pull, though, the bigger the wire you're going to need.  I run 400A max through my 12v floor machine batteries in my electric truck, and I use 2/0 cable to connect them.  Golf cart batteries are often used in EV conversions, typically putting them in series for 120v dc @ 400 or so amps.

I have a Tripp-Lite inverter in my off-grid garage.  The only thing that it couldn't power was a Bosch brand jigsaw.  I don't know why.  I gave that one to my mom and bought a new one- a cheaper solution than a true sine wave inverter (and mom loves me)!  I'm able to power a drill press, radio / cd player, and yes, even my overhead fluorescent lights and CFLs that I use in my worklights.  I haven't noticed any extra heat coming from the worklight CFLs, and haven't had to replace any bulbs- yet.

I do plan on getting a true sine wave inverter in the future, once I have enough solar to charge my electric truck.  For now, though, the 24v Tripp-Lite works great and is quite a bargain compared to most others.

Just wanting to let everyone know:

So far, I've  put on one 6 gal. of the coating, and it covered about 1/3 of the roof.  It should have covered more, but it was a learning process finding the best way to mix it, spread it, etc.  I don't think we've had a particularly mild June, but the electric bill this month was lower than in June of '07 and '06 (when I started keeping track).  I have another 5 gal. that I've already purchaed, but it got too rainy to put on.  I'll be putting that on this Sunday (if it doesn't RAIN!!), and that should coat another 1/3 or more of the south-facing roof.  That will be 2/3 to 3/4 of the south-facing roof that will be coated before the next electric bill.  August and February are our highest electric months, since our home is all-electric.  Hopefully, I'll get the whole south-facing roof coated before August, and I'll post final results once it's done.

cliff notes: not even the whole roof is coated, but it already seems to help the A/C usage to have a reflective aluminized roof coating!

I'd use a breaker box, like this one

http://store.altenergystore.com/Enclosures-Electrical-and-Safety/Electrical-Enclosures/Combiner-Boxes/Midnite-Solar-MNPV6-Combiner-Box/p4566/

It has a bar for common positive, and you can use breakers and / or DIN-rail-mount distribution blocks http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/114/gfx/small/6367tp1s.gif

The distribution blocks could even be used so you can combine each shelf from many smaller wires to two larger wires.

Using breakers would allow you to "shut off" part of the battery array for maintanance without losing power.  It's something I'll be doing in my off-grid garage soon.

How are alternative energy technologies being "supressed"?  I'm able to click over here to the Alt-E store, buy me some solar panels and associated hardware, and take my home off the grid if I so choose.  Just this past year, I built an electric vehicle from a '95 Dodge Dakota, that gets about 50 mi. range.  I charge it in my off-grid garage once a a week, and charge it at the house (on-grid still) the other days I use it.  I'm not seeing the suppression.  What I do see is the majority of Americans looking down their own noses instead of forward to the horizon.  Anyone that says the oil companies are stealing all their money need only stop by the local Wal-Mart for a bicycle to change that.  More and more vehicles are now being offered with Flex-Fuel capability, meaning you can pump E85 or gasoline, whichever is cheaper at the time.  Zap (zapworld.com) and other companies now offer NEVs and even highway-capable EVs.  If you don't like the hormones in your beef, kill your own cow.  If you don't like the pesticides in your veggies, grow your own.

It is not so much evil government or corporate conspiracy that is holding us down, but rather the fact we conspire against ourselves to do tomorrow the same thing we did yesterday.

One last note, on the price of oil: the price of oil is not going up.  The value of the dollar has been going down, and oil is traded in US Dollars.  The value of the dollar is dropping because the rest of the world sees that our money isn't really backed by anything real (when I wa a kid, I was told Fort Knox had gold in it that backed up our currency).  If we want to fix that, the solution is twofold.  We MUST return to a gold standard- we must back up our money with something REAL.  Also, we must offer more choices for motor vehicle fuel, and end the sugar tariffs, so we can import sugar cane.

You have 12, 12v batteries?  It shouldn't matter which battery the inverter is wired to (since, technically, it's wired to all of them at once).  Are they all close together?  What guage wire are you using from battery to battery?  How far is the inverter away from the battery array?  What size wire are you using from battery pack to inverter?

What do you mean by connects to battery x (+ & -)?  If you have 12v batteries, and you're wired for 12v to the inverter, all (-) should be connected together and all (+) should be connected together, to maintain 12v.

[+ 12v INV -]
 |         |
 |         |
[+  bat 01 -]
 |         |
[+  bat 02 -]
 |         |
[+  bat 03 -]
 |         |
[+  bat 04 -]

I've coated about 1/2 the south-facing roof with reflective aluminized asphalt roof coating.  I've learned a few things:

1) you can never have too much ice water on hand
2) black asphalt shingles are hot
3) silver asphalt shingles make you hot by reflecting the sun's energy back onto you
4) did I mention it's hot up there on the roof?
5) your wife will be angry when your son comes down off the roof and won't come clean.


It's supposed to rain again late tonight or tomorrow, so I need to wait until after friday for applying more of the coating.  I started above the rooms furthest from the HVAC (the ones that would gather and retain the most heat).  I'm hoping to have the whole south-facing roof done by the end of next week.  I'll have an electric bill in 3 weeks.  We'll see if it's lower than the 13 month average and lower than same month last year.

I purchased a number of the parts from one place, but not really in a kit.  I designed a few of the parts myself on a CADD and had a machine shop make them for me.  Aside from that, I did all the work myself.  The truck didn't leave my garage from the time I drove it in under gas power to the time I drove it out 12 months later under electric power.  I did a number of things I hadn't seen done elsewhere, including using 14" tall floor scrubber batteries (Trojan J185H) for the propulsion pack- times ten for 120vdc.  The bed tilts up for battery access, and is totally empty, so you can still use it to haul.  Our longest range test so far is 28.8 miles.  We're going to try to find a flatter place to test it this weekend, so we can see what kind of range we'll really get with it.

If you do an EV, pick a '91-'96 Dakota long-bed (ours is a shortbed) with the regular cab and bench seat (seats 3), and you should be able build an EV with a 50+ mile range and a 65+mph top speed, without sacraficing bed space for batteries.  With the longbed, you may be able to use Trojan's J305H 6v battery.

I'm hoping to have more pictures in my gallery soon, but I've had other projects taking my time as well, like our Jetski and off-grid garage, where the Dakota was put together.

It is my intention to build a 120mi. EV.  This was the first one, and I did not expect to reach that goal the first time.  I'm happy with the >30 mile range this one has for a first attempt, and will be using this one as a reference while i build the next one.. after which time the first one will be for sale

I just finished my Dodge Dakota.  It's all-electric.  I'll be finishing the garage later this year so the truck can be charged on solar and wind power.

Mid-Missouri.  We have all four seasons here.  Sometimes in the same day.

I don't think they're much of an advantage in the winter.  As part of our off-grid home plan, we'll be switching from electric home heat to wood burning stove.  We'll keep the electric elements in the water heater and HVAC only as a backup.  We can take the home heat off the electrical load, but we can't do that with the A/C in the summer.  Evaporative cooling doesn't work in my area, since Missouri summers tend to be more humid than just hot.

I did find that the local Lowes has this reflective roof coating.  I picked up a 1 gal. bucket, and applied it to the roof.  At 83°F outside temp, and 125°F shingle temp, the coating on the roof was only 85°F !!  From 125 to 85 is a pretty huge difference, so I'm going to coat more of the south-facing roof.  Before I do, I'll take temp readings from the ceiling (gotta love my IR tire pyrometer) of all the rooms.  The idea would be that for the thermostat set at, say 80°, the ceilings, especially in rooms further from the HVAC blower, should be cooler after application.

I'll know by week's end.  It looks like tomorrow thru thursday should be rain-free, so I'm going to run to the hardware store and pick up more of the roof coating today!

My house has a shingle roof.  As you can imagine, they're black.  Black absorbs the sun's energy quite well, so in the summer, I'm spending precious electrons cooling the house.  Eventually, much of the south-facing roof will be covered with solar panels.  For now, though, I was wondering if anyone has tried painting or coating their south-facing roof with anything, and if it had any reasonably positive effect for the cost.

I have a few ideas of my sleeve, but want to hear from anyone that's tried it first.

Thanks!

edit:
I found a "reflective roof coating" on Lowes.com website, but it isn't carried in my area.  I went to McMaster.com, and they do have a white and silver roof coating, so I purchased a 1gal. kit of the silver, and will apply it over the weekend, weather permitting.  Using just a 1gal. kit, I expect to only cover a portion of the south-facing roof.  I'll use a pyrometer to measure roof temps the next day.  I'll also go inside and measure ceiling temps.  If there's a considerable difference, I'll get the larger pail (5gal.) and do more, and monitor the electric bill.

I intend to take my home off-grid next year, so anything I can do to reduce the bill now will save many $$ in PV and batteries later.