Help needed with batteries

5 Posts
Jul 6, 2007 03:02 pm
Help needed with batteries

Hi,
Currently, I have two battery banks, one that smoked away (consisting of four 8D truck batteries, 3 of them got sulfated)and the other consisting of eight 6 Volt golf cart batteries (they read that are 225Ah 'Trace' batteries for UPS, and inverters, but as long as I know, Trace do not make batteries)and are working pretty well. The thing is I will be moving to a new home that will be off-grid, and can no longer count with the 8D batteries. So I need to get new batteries for the whole new system which will consist of 12 Kyocera KC-130 Watts solar panels. Right now I am considering one of the following options:
 
1. Expand the golf cart battery bank to 16 batteries total.

 2. Buy forklift batteries, like the 12-85-13.

Please, let me know which one of those options is the best, or if there is another option I should consider. I do live in Puerto Rico, where I have plenty of sun, but getting batteries such as Deka or Rolls is something like impossible and costs will be out of this world.

Thanks,

Jorge
 
351 Posts
Jul 6, 2007 06:48 pm
Re: Help needed with batteries

Jorge:

Battery banks are sized based upon loads, not generation.  Since you provided no load data, I can understand people being reluctant to comment.

We are also forced to assume other things such as is this a 24vdc system ? The more information you can provide, the better the comments that can be returned.

Assuming that your loads match the generation fairly closely, you would be pulling the 16 battery bank down to about 63 percent state of charge on a daily basis. That is a little undersized.

When you expand to 16 or more batteries, you need to purchase all new batteries. The older batteries will not mix well with the new. 

If you operated the four 8D batteries in parallel with eight golf cart batteries, you have an example of what can happen on mixing different size/age/types batteries.

Ken
 
5 Posts
Jul 7, 2007 12:11 am
Re: Help needed with batteries

Thanks Ken for your reply,

My systems are 12 volts each, and are in two places apart. The  one with four 8D truck batteries is in my house and the one with eight 6 volts golf cart batteries is in my old man cabin, so batteries never got mixed.

I know battery banks are sized upon loads, the reason I did not minded about sizing was because I rode that if I am going to be off grid and count with a generator, then the size of the bank does not necessarily need to be precisely calculated.

Anyway, my electricity bill states that I use
13 kWatts/day. That is using a 8000 Btu A/C daily (only at nights)and a 11500 Btu A/C occasionally, and both will not run with the PV array.

I installed the golf cart batteries last February, and it is used to drive a 4 amps, 115 volts water pump for 15 minutes, twice a week and a 4.3 cu.ft. compact refrigerator from time to time. That is why I thought to expand the bank with new batteries, let me know if it still is no good idea. And in the case I have to buy a new bank, which battery best suit my needs. I think forklift ones are good, but want to hear what you have to say.

Thanks,
Jorge
 
351 Posts
Jul 8, 2007 05:29 pm
Re: Help needed with batteries

"the reason I did not minded about sizing was because I rode that if I am going to be off grid and count with a generator, then the size of the bank does not necessarily need to be precisely calculated."

Jorge:

Getting by with a smaller battery bank because you have a generator, is a false economy in my book.  You can do it, but you are going to pay for it in a shorter battery life.

Battery life is directly related to how deeply you cycle it. As an example, look at
http://store.altenergystore.com/mmsolar/others/USB_AVG_Life_Cycle_Graph.pdf

With a 20% DOD (depth of discharge0, it will survive about 2800 cycles. 30%DOD will drop it to 1800 cycles. At 50% DOD,  1050 cycles. At 80% DOD, you are down to about 550 cycles.
While the total number of cycles may vary between batteries, the percentage drop in the cycles is quite typical for all flooded lead acid batteries.

So, would you want your battery to last 2800 cycles (over 7.5 years) or 550 cycles (about 1.5 years) ?  Personally, I would shoot for a 20% DOD on a daily basis, with no more than a 50% DOD in an emergency basis.  With a generator, you can eliminate the reserve capacity that a stand alone solar system would need for cloudy days.  But in going below that point, the greater your DOD, the shorter your battery life will be.

I would suggest that you attempt to quantify your loads, to properly size your battery bank. There is a load calculator at
http://store.altenergystore.com/calculators/load_calculator/
Or you can make your own spreadsheet.

While a bit time consuming, it will be worth it in the long run.  A side benefit is that it will point out the loads that either need reduction, or would be the easiest to reduce through conservation measures.

I think you should plan on using less expensive batteries such as T105’s (or equivalent) which typically have a 2-6 yr life. Or possibly L-16s, which typically yield a 4-8 yr life,  for your next battery. Either would be less expensive to replace, if you do shorten the life of it.  After you have learned to prolong the battery life, then you can move up to the forklift or other premium batteries.

I would recommend that you use a battery temperature sensor in conjunction with your charge controller and with your generator driven battery charger.  I would also give some consideration to jumping your battery bank to 24V at this time. It would help with your wire sizing and reduce the number of charge controllers that you will need.

I would also recommend that you start with all brand new batteries. Depending on how far you have discharged them, you may have already used 25% (or more) of their cycle life. Putting them into a battery bank with new batteries, they will shorten the life of the new batteries to about the same level.  Best to sell them to someone looking for a bargain, and get a fresh start.

You didn’t say what your inverter is.  If it doesn’t have good load control features, I would consider installing a load controller between the inverter and the batteries.

Ken
 

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