Wind System

Jul 3, 2006 08:57 am
Wind System

Hello,

I'm building on a hilltop with nearly constant class 3 wind. I would like to install the whisper 500 on a 60 ft tower. I will be completly off grid. I'm fortunate to be in a place where I won't have to heat or cool, so my electric needs will be minima. Can anyone tell me if this equipment list makes sense?

Whisper 500
60' plus tower
40xx xantrex inverter w/optional generator starter
back up generator
8 Surrette S-530 batteries
various DC and AC fuses, panels, etc.

Have I forgotten anything?

I haven't quite decided what voltage to use - my house will be about 400ft from the tower.

Would I be better off using a 220V turbine, and laying the wire all the way to the house and install my batteries etc. there, or a 24 - 48V system, and build something closer to the tower? If 220V, does the EZ wire controller charge the batteries directly, or do I need a seperate convertor to go from 220 to 48 or 24??

Thanks
 
22 Posts
Jul 6, 2006 06:57 am
Re: Wind System

Hello Richard;
 I have a bit of experience with what you are speaking. If you have easy access to the tower site, put your equipment at that location with 24 or 48 volt charging and conversion and bring 110v to your home. If not an easy access, use the higher voltage(ie:220v) to bring the power down to your home then do your charging and conversion there.In all cases, use the largest wire you can afford...NO KIDDING, for the 400 ft. run. The cost of the wiring will be high, but you will loose a huge amount of current with smaller wire and with larger wire you will gain the benefit of low or no loss. Talk to a local electrician or power company to see if they have a wire scrap pile for the taking and use that for your feed to your home. Most of that heavy type of wiring is used for "house drops" by the utility company can be spliced with common electical "bugs" available at your local hardware store. String it in a safe manner from tree to tree as this is not suited for burial and fuse both ends. It is a lot of labor, IT HAS TO BE DONE THIS WAY or all is lost.
 I hope this helps a bit! Contact me if I can help at all.
     Regards;
              Steve Bird
 
Jul 6, 2006 01:14 pm
Re: Wind System

Thanks, that helps a lot. I will install the equipment at the tower, and run 110 to the house.

Does anyone see anything missing from my euqipment list?

Thanks,
 
351 Posts
Jul 6, 2006 03:01 pm
Re: Wind System

I would go with the 220v system, it was made for situations like yours. It will keep the wire losses to a minimum. You will also save money on the wire.

It comes with a stepdown transformer. The wire from the windmill connects to the transformer, then the output of the transformer to the controller.

The one Item that is not on your equipment list is a diversion load. The diversion load is not included by the manufacterer, but some stores add it into their own package. So, you need to double check that item.
 
Jul 7, 2006 08:44 am
Re: Wind System

Hmm... Reconsidering...

Ok, then in the end 220V will cost less, both in wire and I won't have to build a shed to house the equipment. Besides a shed would be ugly at the top of the hill...

I'll add 'Diversion Load' to my list. Altenergy.com includes one in their package.

Another question. How does one calculate the amps so one can calculate the wire sizing? The altenergy and SouthWest Wind Power web sites only have specs for the 175, which say that the max amps is 55 at 58Volts. That's the same as for the low voltage turbine. It seems to me the max amps would be the max watts / voltage - 3200/220 or 14.5 amps... Doesn't that make more sense?? Of course the amps at the output of the stepdown transformer will be different, but the long length will be 220V.

Lastly, does one have a choice in output Voltages in the step down transformer?

Thanks again!
 
351 Posts
Jul 8, 2006 01:54 am
Re: Wind System

Here is the Southwest Windpower page for the Whisper 500.
http://www.windenergy.com/whisper_500.htm

Both the manual and spec sheet are available just below the photos.  I am getting some errors on the manual file, but a lot of it is readable.

The transformer appears to be configurable for 24, 36, or 48 volts.

You did your amperage calculation correctly, 14.5 amps

Ken
 
Jul 8, 2006 01:56 pm
Re: Wind System

Thanks, Ken fir answering all my questions...

I will be ordering the wind turbine and other euqipment in the enxt few months.
 
Jul 20, 2006 07:30 am
Re: Wind System

Bad news... A request to Altenergy store for information on the Whisper 500, 200V Wind Turbine says that the transformer, EZ wire controller, lightening arrestor, and diversion load are all extra. Their web site says the EZ wire controller and diversion load are included. A further request quoting the web site hasn't been answered.. If all that is extra, I'm better off getting the low voltage version - the cable will be less than just the cost of the transformer - 1500$ on their web site.

Has anyone ordered this turbine from them before - either the low voltage or high voltage versions? What was included? How is their after-market care - if they don't respond to their emails, how is their support??

Thanks,
 
351 Posts
Jul 20, 2006 02:41 pm
Re: Wind System

I am sorry to hear about the pricing issues. It makes me wonder too.

I don't know type of response your going to get to your questions here on the technical board. You might try putting up on the discussion board where they ask "How are we doing ?

I suggest that you escalate your effort. Give them a call, and ask for a supervisor of some sort. Then ask them to confirm whatever they tell you in writing. Hope you have copies of the original web page. The page seems to have changed in the last couple of days. It now says transformer extra. I would be interested in hearing your feed back once you get to the end of it.

I do not know how much total effort you want to put into this. I do not like games with advertised prices. But even when you get to the bottom line price, the cheapest price is not always the best price.

Buying a wind machine of this size is a big investment and you will need help with the installation. Might be a good idea to check with someone more local to you and see what their prices are. The local guy is the one that you will try calling when you really need help in the future.

Often there local knowlege can give you a better installation in the long run, which is worth many bucks. Do you want a $8,000 installation that you are unhappy with, or a $10,000 one that you are extremely happy with.

Good luck,
Ken (aka Oso)
 
Jul 20, 2006 03:33 pm
Re: Wind System

Thanks again, Ken...

I'll be installing the system on a Carribean Island where they have no local dealers. There are some talented electricians, and hopefully, between us we can get the job done. But I'll have to buy the equipment in the states, and have it shipped.

I'll follow your advice and give them a call. What I'm trying to do is get a list together of things I will need and submit it to a few reputable companies for pricing... that's why I'm trying to narrow the list down to exactly what I need. I guess I'll have to ask them all to price both the High Voltage and Low Voltage system.

I emailed Altenergy again this morning... I'll wait a couple days for a response, and if none, perhaps I'll post a message to the 'how are we doing' forum. My understanding was they monitor all the forums, and I was hoping someone from there would respond to this post. But my theory is this - I'm ready to spend a bit of money on a wind system, and if they don't want my money others do....
 
3 Posts
Jul 21, 2006 09:10 am
Re: Wind System

Hello Richard,

Just saw this forum post... wanted to offer you some thoughts on what you are looking to do.  I am not sure if you had spoken with someone or if it was an emailed response you got from the store in regard to what is included with the Whisper 500... I apologize if you were misinformed.  The Whisper 500 does come with the EZ wire controller with diversion load included.  The lightning arrestor and the transformer are not included.  Also, you had asked about the wire sizing... and found the info on the Whisper 175, that is now the 500 so the specs should be the same (you can also get to the manual from the following link) Here is a link to the spec page if you want to check it out : http://store.altenergystore.com/Wind-Systems/Wind-Turbines-Electric/Southwest-Wind-Power-Turbines/Whisper-500-Wind-Turbines/WHISPER-500-EZ-WIRE-WINDPV-CONTROL-24V/p1458/
   I do think the 220volt transformer will make the most sense for cost effectiveness as well as practicality.  I also do think it is a good idea to try to work with a local installer who can provide the necessary service and support that is more difficult to provide from a remote location (plus, it's always good to support local business)... but please do not hesitate to call us with technical questions... we are all trained with regard to the various technologies and products and their applications.  If there is something a salesperson is not sure about, we have a technical department to verify the validity of any suggestions or solutions.

I will send you a quote and we can open a dialogue from there.. I also know a few folks (electrician/contractors) down in the islands.. which island are you doing the install on?

The Alternative Energy Store
"Making Renewable Do-able"
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Jul 21, 2006 09:54 am
Re: Wind System

Thanks, John....

The island is Roatan, a part of Honduras... If you know of any local dealers there or in mainland Honduras, let me know... But it's a small place, and I doubt it. Of course, I would hire locals to do the installation - many have experience in the US, Canada and Europe. But if I want this done, I won't be able to get support there.

I'm still thinking that just the cost of the transformer for the high voltage system outweighs the cost of the wire necessary for installing the low voltage system at a long distance. Also, I'll probably build a 'shed' at the base of the tower, install all the equipment there and run 120V to the house.

I just received your quote and will do further discussion with you by email.
 
22 Posts
Jul 22, 2006 05:37 am
Re: Wind System

Hello Richard;
 I see the points well taken from Kenny and Jonny, seems so very expensive and complicated from a do-it-yourselfer view. Let me outline my system and will stand back for a while. I have 2 Air-X 400's 12VDC on my 80 ft tower..cost $1070 for both new. 100ft of #8 jacketed copper wire.. $135 new, (this is run down the tower to the charge controller) Charge controller $165 new. 6-15 watt solar panels (matching) $630 new. 3500 watt 12vdc to 110vac $235 new. Handheld voltmeter $65 new. This totals around $2000 not including my labor. I installed this in about two weekends and have been tinkering ever since (about two years). I originally used 4 deep cycle boat batteries with no problems, but since upgraded to 6 chloride batteries at about $200 each. All above NOT including batteries were purchased on Ebay and delivered to my home here in New England. Now for the rest of the story, I run my home 95% on this system, I am grid connected and only my refrigerator, water pump and my garage apartments clothes dryer and refrigerator are on the grid.
 I have recently built and installed a tracking system for the solar panels to follow the sun all day for about $200 in parts again on Ebay delivered.
 Nothing complicated, no burned parts, no burned fingers, no shocks, simple me can work on it and simple me built it!
   Steve
 
Jul 22, 2006 07:18 am
Re: Wind System

Thanks, Steve...

That's encouraging to hear from someone who's actually doing it. I'm far from the electric lines, so I'll need a bigger system - I'll have to run fridge and everything on the system.

I've been looking at eBay, and I've found that most of what's being sold there for RE is being sold as 'buy now' by companies at prices that are higher than some of the on-line stores....
 
22 Posts
Jul 22, 2006 04:18 pm
Re: Wind System

Hi Richard;
 Yes, you do need a larger system, but you can get 12 volt fridge's also. I was thinking that you may be in an area where solar may be less of a hassle with the tower and all. For what I remember, Honduras has about 100% sun year round. Maybe that solar would be your best bet for primary and wind as secondary.
   Steve
 
Jul 22, 2006 04:27 pm
Re: Wind System

Thanks again....

Solar is an option - Roatan averages 5.5 hours of sun a day. And would be less of a hassle. I may add some panels later - that's why I wanted do be sure the EZ Wire controller was included. But 1000 Watts of solar panels is over 4500$ now not including mounts, controllers and all, and will supply about 5500 Watts per day.

Meanwhile the turbine with tower and controller is about 6500$, and will supply 18000 Watts a day in the 12mph average wind at the site.
 

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