Curtiss Lonsbury's posts

If you're using solar and a battery bank, how about a simple inverter hooked to a standard fencer?  The fencers don't use all that much power, are readily available, and small inverters of 300W or less are available at any truck stop or Alternative energy store.

LAST EDITED ON Jul-31-04 AT 07:01 PM (EST)

Unfortunately, BOBS, while Roland could use a bit of tact, he is correct.  
The formula for gravity energy is E=m*a*h, where E is energy, m is mass, a is gravitational acceleration, and h is the height to which the mass is lifted.  It is what is known as a conservative system.  That is, the path utilized to get up and down doesn't matter; only the height.  While this is a simplified version of the equation, showing only the static elements, there are non-conservative dynamic elements involved such as friction which make energy losses occur each time something moves.

I do believe that there is a way to get perpetual motion, but this is not it.  I suggest you get a book on Physics (Haliday and Resnick was a good one for me) and upgrade your mathematical skills to at least calculus if you really are interested in these concepts.  It will help you throw out the garbage.  In the mean time, run away from this thing.  You've stumbled on a huckster who should be strung up.

I personally worked on a concept of the exact same nature when I was a freshman in high school, but finally came away with the understanding that this thing couldn't work.  By the way...does anyone know how the stupid dipping birds work?  They have fascinated and baffled me for quite some time now.

LAST EDITED ON Jul-31-04 AT 06:42 PM (EST)

Just exactly how self-reliant do you want to be?  We have a tax system that guarantees that you cannot be totally self-reliant.  Property taxes are designed to insure that you stay connected to the world system in some way or another.  You have to give them money, or they will fully indoctrinate you into their system.  You could squeeze some from the suckers in this world, but that would make you part of the problem.  You could set up some form of business or labor, but that would make you one of the suckers.

By the way, the last I knew, Kentucky didn't have property taxes.  Maybe there, but who knows how long that will last.  If you come up with something workable, let me know.  If you need encouragement;  VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!

LAST EDITED ON Jul-31-04 AT 06:09 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON Jul-31-04 AT 06:06�PM (EST)

You indicate 26 watts for 7 days.  You should be able to get by on 364 Amp-Hours of battery power @ 12 volts.  This is not considering inverter losses and charging losses.  That's 3 good sized deep cycle batteries.  

However, what you are proposing as far as power production would only occur when your mill was down for inspection or repair.  Other than that, you would never see that long a period without power production.  
In this case, start with 1 large deep cycle battery and see what happens. If it's not enough, then upgrade.
Also, what is the nature of the power usage?  Is it continuous or itermittent?  What is the peak draw?  Any inverters utilized must be considered according to peak, not average.
As far as water usage, do you intend to maintain decent personal hygiene (I can't remember how to spell that), or are you intending to use body odor as a mountain lion deterrent?  How large is the area on the roof, and what is the frequency of collectible rainfall where you intend to place the shed?  
I have many other questions, but I don't want to dissuade you as I am genuinely interested in your adventures.  I'll help you where I can, and I'm sure others will as well

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-04 AT 02:11 PM (EST)

 Thank you for the power usage information.  It looks as if that's the route I'll have to go.
 It's a little more salty than I had originally intended to go, but it's everything I need.  Although I won't be able to get quite as much initial punch, it is upgradable, so I can get more power later.

 Not only that, but the ability to auto-start the generator under such a wide variety of situations makes this the choice I should have started with in the first place.  It's just unfortunate that I had already spent the time and some of the money to design an auto-start based on mechanical sealed relays.  It's a little complex, but rock solid.  Maybe I'll keep it aside for just-in-case.

 By the way, I would like to thank you, Brock, and the other gentleman(?), Sunour for your assistance and your thought provoking questions regarding this situation.  I will try to keep you posted.  

Thank you - Curtiss A. Lonsbury

LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-04 AT 04:12 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-04 AT 04:07�PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-04 AT 03:25�PM (EST)

I just read what I wrote earlier, and thank God you can understand jibberish.

You have the right idea, HOWEVER...

 What I am attempting is to eventually use the DR's as primary power (eventually - other elements are in the works) with the gen-set for battery charging.  For now, if I can get the DR's set up the way I want, I can use a 30A relay to switch the battery charging function from the grid to the gen-set whenever the gen-set is started.  Thus, the DR's will be short-term backup (up to several days) for the grid until I start the gen-set when I get home.  Once started, the gen-set will continue running and charging the batteries until either they are fully charged, or the grid comes back on line.  At that point it will shut down.

 The power drain from the DR's will be continuous whenever I'm off the grid (i.e. during power outages), but not constant.  For the most part, I don't use very much power...mostly just the furnace blower motor and the occasional repressuring of the well.  When I'm gone, all I want the system to do is to protect the trailer from freezing in the winter and to keep the well primed.  
 However, when I'm home for several hours (or on the weekend), I'm doing laundry (both washer and dryer) as well as showering.  If the power goes out during this time, I need a larger output capability to keep everything up and running until I finish showering or whatever activities I'm involved in.
 Remember, I drive truck.  It is often the case that I leave for work immediately after completing these activities.
 If I have significantly drained the batteries, and the grid is still off line, the batteries have to be charged back up,  and the generator will handle this during the low power drain period that I am gone.  
 The primary advantage of the system using a smaller gen-set is that there is far less wasted energy going out the exhaust as would be the case with a larger gen-set.  I know several people who use large gen-sets of 7 KW and more, and when the power goes out, their fuel usage is horrendous.  It is far less expensive to operate a DR @ 80% efficiency than to use a gen-set at 10% efficiency.

 No, I haven't asked Trace.  Every time I talk to some company about modifying some of their equipment, they freak out, try to dissuade me and then never do answer my question.  After that, I usually find someone who has already pulled off what I want to do, so I figured I would forego their inevitable freaking out.  
 Besides, it looks as if Exceltech has solved my dilemma even as we communicate.  They have a brand new true sine wave inverter system that is n+1 expandable up to 20 KW on 120v single phase and 40 KW on 240v bi-phase (what a strange term).  Unfortunately, it's a bit more salty.  Oh, well...

Old indian concept:  Dirt is a great insulator and stone can store a heap of heat.  
1)  Dig a large hole in an area that won't kill the trees via heat leaching or get drowned out by underground water supplies:  6' deep (that's about 2' below the maximum winter frost line around here) x 10' long x 4' wide (that should be more than sufficient).
2)  Lay down a layer of crushed stone in the bottom about 1' thick.
3)  lay about 100' of pipe or tubing or hose or whatever you feel would make a good heat exchanger line for your hot water to flow in.
4)  make sure the ends come up out of the ground.
5)  Lay down another 1' thick layer of crushed stone on top of the piping.
6)  Fill the hole back in with soil.
7)  Hook up to your solar heater.

It will take about as long for the storage unit to reach temperature as it will store, so be patient.  Possibly as much as a month.

Not yet paranoid enough.  But you're getting the idea.

LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-04 AT 04:02 PM (EST)

Is it possible to disable the bypass relay on the DR series inverters, and if so, does the inverter part of the DR continue to operate when AC power is applied?  

I have an automatic bypass relay built into my system that is rated @ 100A, and I am installing twin DR3624 inverters to back up my home during long outages in the winter.  As the generator is far smaller than the inverter startup capability, but would produce enough power as a whole, (I peak out at around 100 kWH during the cold, Michigan winters when I run my furnace) I would like to use it strictly as a power source to charge the batteries, and let the inverters handle the real drains when I come home from driving truck.  It's during these periods that I do laundry, take showers, run my dryer, etc.  

LAST EDITED ON Jul-31-04 AT 07:26 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON Jul-31-04 AT 07:25�PM (EST)

Joe!  Where did you go?