Tom M's posts

Priscilla, if you are looking to use PV for offsetting or total electrical use, figure out how much power you need and for how long you need it. You can find calculators for this here on this site as well as other sites. Use DC lighting,eg. LED's, and appliances whenever possible. Then maybe you can invest in a small PV system with a couple of batteries and a small inverter to cover your needs.
 A small solar hot water system may be all you need to supply hot water for bathing and this can be done cheaply depending on your location. (Freezing weather or not).     
You should also consider rainwater collection for cleaning cages and shelter areas. Adding straw for bedding may also help in clean up and can be used in compost after use.

James, if there is a reservoir where you can actually see the water that is being pumped up to the panels, then it is probably not a closed loop system. First, look and see if there is a check valve in line, then make sure the pump is installed in the right direction. There should be an arrow on the pump housing to show pumping direction.
 If the system has been sitting idle for ten years there could be debris in the piping or panels. The best way to make sure all is clear is to hook up a hose to the system and run house pressure through it.
 If indeed it is a drainback system with a reservoir, you have to make sure the pump is located such that it is full of water in order to maintain a prime.
 Another problem could be water remaining in the panels themselves. If it gets hot, they can build up pressure that the pump cannot overcome. If so flush and cool the panels using a hose and house pressure as mentioned above.

Charles, just seeing how you made out. If your plan is to have the amtrol as a back up, you need to leave your boiler on, which is not what you want, I believe?. Hopefully you piped the system with the solar tank feeding the amtrol and installed a bypass to be able to operate the solar tank only. It is only then that you can turn off the power to the boiler and isolate the amtrol.
 There is one other way you can minimize using the boiler while still having it available for backup. Keeping the tanks in series, you add an aquastat control or high limit control to the pipe exiting the amtrol. Wire this control to the power of the boiler. Then when the temperature get below a certain set point, say 100 or so, it turns on the power to the boiler and it makes hot water as designed.
 So hopefully throughout most of the year, until you need heat, the solar tank will be hot enough to keep both tanks at a warm enough temperature and the boiler off.

David, they make a duo vent. It is both a vaccuum relief and air vent......

charles, sounds like you got the right idea. You can pipe the solar tank as you describe, cold water in, then hot water out to the cold water supply on the Amtrol, then hot water from the amtrol out to the house. Basically the solar is preheating the water coming into the amtrol keeping the thermostat satisfied and the boiler off. You can also add valves so you can use the solar tank only. Best to keep the solar tank separate from the boiler, otherwise the boiler may heat the water confusing the solar controller and keeping it off.

Lawerence, these panels are made to be soldered together. Use a one inch copper coupling and solder. If you are weary of melting the rubber gasket, used only to seal the hole around the pipe, just keep the flame low and heat from the middle of the coupling. Or put a wet rag around the pipe near the gastket....
 If you are still not comfortable soldering, just use a hose and hose clamps. The system is low pressure and this method has been used for years, especially when connecting different types of panels.

Will, not sure if and El Cid pump will work for you. It is designed for low head and low flow. The resistance in 100' of tubing would need a little more head pressure from the pump. Consider using a Grunfos or Taco circulator pump similar to those used in closed loop heating systems.

William, it looks like the panels they install are plastic and unglazed. They may be okay for AZ. Unless you have lots of freezing temperatures. Also drainback systems can be a little less efficient than using a tank with an internal heat exchanger which would only require one pump and the heat transfer area will be larger and immersed in the tank water itself.
 Check out some other types of SHW panels that may heat water a little hotter and faster. There are copper and copper with aluminum panels which may have a higher conductivity for better heat gain and transfer.
 Also check out other types of hot water systems that may be a better solution. You may even find some information at this site......
 

mk, when the sun is out and the temperature in the panels is hotter than the temperature in the tank, the two pumps should turn on. There should be a manual switch on the differential controller to test and see if the pumps are working. If they do not work, they could be bad. If they do work, but not when sunny, you may have a bad sensor.
 One pump pulls water from the tank and the other circulates fluid up to the panels....

Brian, if the panels are copper, any good plumber should be able to remove the cover and fix the leaks. Plastic ones can be cut and insert couplings can be used.

Jim, you still haven't explained if the panels are serpentine or have risers and headers. If they are serpentine there will only be two connections on each panel, an inlet and an outlet. If they have risers and headers there will be four connections, two on the bottom and two on the top. As mentioned before, if they are serpentine, they should be connected in series, inlet-outlet-inlet-outlet. Risers and headers, bottom inlets connected together, top outlets connected together with a cap on the inlet side top and outlet side bottom.
 Any possibility that you can remount the panels on the ground, south facing? As long as the tank is in a basement, or at least lower than the panels, it can still work. Then at least you will get more gain over the day and may be a little easier to work on.

Jim, one more quick question, are the panels serpentine or do they have two headers with pipes running vertical from the bottom to the top. If they are old reynold's aluminum collectors then they are more than likely serpentine and should be hooked up in series. If they have headers and risers then they should be hooked up with all the bottom headers tied together and all the top headers tied together with the water entering one side on the bottom and exiting the other side on the top. There should only be one feed and one return that both drain when the system is off. There should not be a tee connecting any two of these pipes.

Jim, now that you described the system a little better, though I am not exactly sure of the true setup. It sounds like the water going into the panels is not balanced. If one of the panels has a lower resistance, less piping, then the water coming from the pump will go into that panel first. So more water will be going into one panel than the other. Then when the water leaves the panels, it could be causing a syphoning action to the other. This is what could be creating the air in the panel. With no water, the panel will get very hot thus heating the panel such that any small amount of water that does enters the panel will instantly boil and could be causing the pressure build up and banging. (Just like in a steam radiator system where water is stuck in the radiator where is shouldn't be, it should drain back to the boiler) The best bet is to put the panels together in parallel with the top and bottom of each panel connected together. Have the water enter the bottom of one panel and exit out of the top of the other so you get a cross flow and ensure that each collector is full of water. Then use only one side for draining to ensure all the water drains.(Remove the T) Also check for proper pitch on the rest of the piping to ensure all the pinping drains. 
 You also mentioned that the T joins two drains. Are you sure that both drains come from the bottom or supply side of the panels, or is one coming from the supply and one from the return from the top of the panel? This may be causing counter flow in one of the panels.
 To bad you already purchased a new tank. You could have changed over to a closed loop system and got rid of all the drainback problems.

Mike, yes try to connect the bottoms of each panel together in series and the same with the top. Put the supply or input on one side of the bottom of the panels and the output on the opposite side on the top so you get a cross flow. Of course each panel will have it's own flow due to it's internal resistance But they will all work the same with the hot fluid rising up to the top. 

Jeffery, what type of radiators do you have? Baseboard, cast iron...? Instead of trying to store the heat in a tank, pipe the heated water directly into the radiators and use the mass in your home as the storage. Then use a tank the rest of the year for domestic hot water. You can also combine the two systems for year round use.

Jim,it sounds like it is time to drain, flush and refill the system. Banging may be occuring because of a stuck check valve or a clog in some other part of the system.
What type of system do you have? Drainback, closed loop....
Is the expansion tank still good? A quick tap on the bottom half of the tank should indicate if it still has air inside. If pressure is building up then that could cause the banging also. If you are taking fluid out of the system, then you are introducing air into it. This could also cause some banging especially if you get an air pocket at the pump. This makes me ask if the pump is still operational. If the water is not circulating, then pressure and air will build up in the panels.

Ellen, glad you got it going. To bad your contractor didn't know what he was doing. As mentioned before, the 3 panels should have worked out heating the 80 gallons of water in the main tank and whatever extra water is in the drainback tank, especially on not so sunny days.
  Good that he left the extra panels in place. That way there, if/when the tank starts leaking, you can think about changing over to a closed loop system with a heat exchanger tank and then you can hook them back up and take advantage of all that free energy.
  Or perhaps you can hook them up to use with some heating application.

...a quick analogy.

Watt is power
Volt is flow
Amp  is current or pressure

Watts = V (volts) x I (amps)

or I = Watts/V 
or V = Watts/I

Think of a stream leading to some falls where there is a water wheel or turbine. The wheel will put out power or work, or Watts.
 The water flows with a constant flow rate in gal/min or ft^3/min, this coincides with voltage, eg. 120 volts. This value does not change throughout the flow.
 Before the water reaches the waterwheel, the stream narrows. In order to keep the same flow rate, the water must speed up. This velocity is the current. The faster this current, the more power you can produce.
  Now think about a wire that has been hit with a nail. Now there is a notch taken out of the wire. Now the electrons traveling through the wire have to travel faster through this part of the wire that has been narrowed. this causes friction and overheating.
 So a certain size wire can only carry so many amps at a given voltage over a certain distance before it either over heats or the internal resistance stops the flow.
 So both amps and volts can contribute to more power. If you install a 50 W vs. a 100 W lightbulb in a socket, the voltage is the same but more current has to flow to the 100 W bulb, and it's flow will be twice as fast. If you stick your finger in the socket, the more amps the bigger the jolt or wallup from the increased, moving mass of electrons.
   

Mike, the system would not be grid tied, so the power you make is the power you use. If you are starting small you may have to check with your power company about grid tie. They usually require a specific size system to be installed in order to get their money back. 
 The biggest part of a PV system is the batteries, so a good investment here is the first thought. Buying similar batteries at the same time is also usually the thing to do.(Same with PV) But size your system according to what you plan to operate. You may be able to get away with one battery, a 100 Watt or more PV panel, a small controller, and a small inverter just to operate the pump and blower and a light or two. Then if battery capacity is sufficient, you can add multiple inverters and 12/24 volt loads.
 If you know what you would like to operate in the future, and know the power they will require, you should think about purchasing a larger controller, since their prices are moderate, and/or battery bank to start.
 Then it's a matter of adding PV to recharge your batteries faster. You can also use such systems totally separately in case of failure of one. 

Michael, you should reread John D.'s answer. Why invest such a large sum of money up front for some PV? Start small and grow. Buy enough now to run any blowers or pumps for the systems you plan to do first. Then they will completely solar! Or size it a little bigger to handle your current heating system or dedicated circuit of lights and such, for emergency use, should the main power go out. Then invest in additional systems as you get the funds. Then you can take them with you easily if you ever move.

Rene, you live at 42 deg. N, so, 15 deg. either way gives you, 57 and 27 deg. The angle you are concerned with is the angle between the panel and the horizontal ground using the spot where the panel touches the ground as the vertex.
 So if your panel is standing vertical on the ground, lean the panel back until it makes an angle of 42 deg with the ground below it. This will be the spring and fall location. Then it only makes sense after that. In the winter, raise the panel by rotating it up another 15 deg. towards vertical, until it makes an angle of 57 deg. with the ground. In the summer, rotate it more towards the horizontal, until it is 27 deg. with the ground. 
 But as others have noted, if the rack is easily adjustable just adjust monthly or weekly as needed.

Thomas, good, simple solutions....one of those toy, lick and stick darts for dart guns works good too.....or any similar small rod attached to the panel....right on with drilling set holes too...another easy solution for seasonal adjustments...

Kieth, I think you need to take a closer look at the unit. Basically it works whenever the fluid in the panels is hotter than the water in the tank, just as any other system that uses a differential controller, not just when hot water is needed.
 So when the fluid in the panels is hotter than the water in the tank, the pumps turn on. One pump circulates the fluid up to the panels and back. The other pump circulates water from the tank through the heat exchanger loop and is surrounded by the fluid from the panels. You can take your supply and return from where ever you want. Usually you will use the drain and the relief valve location on a typical tank. You have to add a tee to both locations and pipe from there. 

Kieth, since you will have to purchase other components elsewhere, why not check the pricing on the given components while you are at it to see if you can purchase them cheaper locally. Basically all components are plumbing related. Check with your local plumbing supply. You should at least save some money on shipping cost and will help your local economy at the same time. Support your local plumber also, who may also be able to help you with your installation.
 Of course you will be better off purchasing the solar components here, panels, controller, sensors etc.

Barrio, as John D. said, find a nice location on the ground. I always recommend doing this for the same reasons you mention. Mostly so you can adjust the panels for the appropriate angle throughout the year. Also it makes cleaning and maintenence much easier.
 One thing you can consider is to design a rack or small shed that can house the components needed, inverter, shutoffs etc. Keeping the inverter close to the panels will reduce larger gage wiring and then you can run conventional wiring from the inverter to your house and circuit breaker box with minimal losses.
 You can design a small A-frame structure on which you can mount the panels and locate the other components underneath.(Similar to a swing set) Then, you can add wheels to the A-frame and move the rack to any sunny spot throghout the year if you wish.

Ellen, so he installed a new drainback set up to the existing tank? Did he say what was wrong with the old one? As mentioned, if nothing is leaking and the pumps are turning on, it should have been okay.
 Yes it does sound like you hired someone who is not familiar with the system. If the system is not operational after the fact you should not have to pay him. It may be a big fight though.
 Three panels should be sufficient to heat an 80 gallon tank throughout the course of the day, so I would not have them removed.

Ellen, I can't imagine what part would have cost $2100. The only electric parts on a hot water system are the differential controller and the pump. The controller is only around $150.00 and is solid state electronics and shouldn't go bad. The pump is a $100 and that shouldn't go bad either. What component did he replace?
  As far as the melting of the insulation, I can't fathom what could have done this. If something shorted out it should have tripped an electrical breaker. Did he use a torch for any reason? (Soldering pipes).Removing panels should not be an issue. More panels only means that you will recover or make hot water faster. It should not get any hotter. What size/type/brand storage tank do you have?

Tom, I would add a small inverter to the system also, then you can just plug in the AC to DC converter, that probably came with the wifi, directly into it. Then you can plug in other small AC appliances such as lights if needed.

Ellen, if the system is still operational, why does he want to remove the panels. Perhaps to use them for himself or make a profit selling them? If the system holds pressure and the pump turns on when the sun is out, then the system should still work. Since you just moved in, I would just observe the system over time to see if it is still working before making a decision to remove it. There are not many components that can go wrong and the only problem that may occur with the piping and panels is a leak and that can be fixed easy enough. You may just have to drain,flush and refill the SHW loop to make sure there is no debris in the lines.

Steve, sounds like you touched on all the bases. If you decide to stay with a drainback system, you should consider using an antifreeze mixture to prevent freezing and to keep lines clean. I am not sure why you think antifreeze will decrease effiency. Antifreeze is designed to absorb heat better than water. As long as you install the system correctly, and all the water drains from the system, then you should be able to do without. I am just not sure how you will drain the slab. If it is full of water, then there is a good chance it will freeze.
 Also, check valve in line should prevent syphoning. 
 If you do not intend to use the panels for domestic hot water the rest of the year, simply draining off some of the fluid from a closed loop should prevent any problems from over heating, and you already know and have mentioned that you would have to do this.