Thomas Allen Schmidt's posts

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jul 11, 2008 05:12 am

#331 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: Global Warming and Energy Independence Supression
If I may, here is some reading material that may or may not, illustrate how I think Thomas E. feels about modern day mankind.
http://www.asis.com/users/stag/thewar.html
Thomas E. tell me if any of this is close or if I am way off base, won't you?
One could even be atheistic, and still be able to feel that something of this nature is going on in the world. Just choose your own two names.
Something else that may or may not enlighten viewers.
http://www.asis.com/users/stag/heroes/slaves.html
It has happened through out the history of mankind, slavery has, even in the US of A. It can and will happen again, only it will be done in a more clever way. Maybe its happening right now. Chances are those enslaved may not even know until someone shows them. Did those Africans know at first, exactly what was going on? They do now, don't they?
You may ask, "how could we possibly be enslaved?"
How indeed.
http://www-popexpo.ined.fr/english.html� 
The only answer I could give to that question would be to relay something I was told once when I ask the question, "does your dog bite?" The answer was, "he's got teeth don't he?"
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jul 8, 2008 08:39 pm

#332 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: First RE System is Planned
Wow! 375 foot, thats a long ways even for 48 volts nominal at only 900 watts. the Alt-E Stores wire sizing calculations would call for nothing less than 3/0 (pronounced three aught) at 3%. 750 foot of 3/0 even at $3.78 per foot would come to $1,475.50 good thing that wind genny is free!
http://wesbellwireandcable.com/THHN/THHN3_0.html
http://howto.altenergystore.com/How-to-Size-Wiring-and-Cabling-for-Your-System/a62/
Check my math though.
900 watts at 48 volts is 18.75 amps
18.75 x 375 = 7031.25
3 x 48 = 144
7031.25 / 144 =  a VDI of 49

Somebody please prove me wrong. Thats just too much!
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jul 8, 2008 07:47 pm

#333 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Buying components for flexible design
How can we (end users) know if a PV module is near being discontinued, and how can we know which PV modules will be in production for a long time to come?
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jul 6, 2008 06:49 am

#334 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Batteries
I too, know about living on a tight budget. For 20 years I lived without any electricity at all.
Just when I thought all of my "tuffing it out" was over, the economy changed. The price of everything started going up and up. But living within my means has payed off in other ways. More and more I have been seeing lots of people having to get rid of a lot of there "big boy" toys. What was once under their shelters is now in the front yard with a for sale sign on it. At least I am not having to give up anything.
About "tuffing it out." If you do not have a battery monitor, such as the Bogart 2020, get one. Knowing exactly what is going on with your system is very critical to operating and maintaining it. As well, how to spend those precious few dollars on improving on the system to fit your needs.
Being able to, see, the amphours in and out. Knowing how the voltage fluctuates; hour to hour, day to day, month to month, and season to season can educate you about your system in ways that no thing or nobody ever could.
A battery bank can be a major investment. Sizing it to last for many, many years is imperative to say the least and you want be happy about the investment. That you made a good investment. The last thing I want to be sore about, year after year, is that I made a bad investment in a battery bank and judging by your posts, you feel the same way.
With a battery monitor, you can know exactly what your amphour needs are as compared to the amphours produced.
http://www.bogartengineering.com/trimetric.htm
http://www.advancepower.net/metersys.htm
http://store.solar-electric.com/tm2020.html
And don't forget our host Alt E Store.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jul 4, 2008 04:26 pm

#335 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Batteries
Some reading material if you wish it.
http://www.insideline.net/1996/puckett-1112-96.html
http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jul 4, 2008 04:05 pm

#336 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Batteries
All I can tell you is what I might do in your predicament.
More than likely I would use what I had for as long as I could, then move on to the true deep cycle battery.
For one thing I don't know the age or condition of the batteries your using now. I have used that type of battery before. I think the name was Stow Away. Bought them a Wal Mart. Even tried some 8D big rig cranking batteries. Nothing like those can compared to the Trojan T-105's. I got 8 years out of a set of 12 T-105's wired in series/parallel for 1320 amphours at 12 volts nominal. Of course I pampered them, not to mention I sized the bank 5 times higher than what I use each night and I would rotate them once a year.

I have to warn you about something on those T-105's though. Those offset terminals will break off. Then you have to drill and tap whats left and be careful not to over tighten the bolt in the soft lead.

Presently I am using 8 Surette S-530's in series/parallel for 1600 amp hours at 12 volts nominal. Which is about 6 times what I use each night. I am shooting for 20 years on these.
The biggest thing to remember is to recharge what was discharged as soon as possible. I sized my PV array to replace what I use each night (plus about 20% more) with one days worth of clear sky sunshine during the Winter months.
Equalizing is very important as well. Any time I go several days* without that sunshine, I always equalize them afterwards. A battery monitor, such as the Bogart 2020 is invaluable. A must have. I am sure you know about the distilled water allready and keeping everything clean, tight, and corrosion free.
If everything is sized right and the region you live in is moderate (no extremes) you can go without a back up generator.

* About 5 days, more if I know its going to happen and cut back usage
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jul 2, 2008 05:38 am

#337 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: I need help with the math!
Because of my arrogance, I may have made a mistake.
You said 25 kWh's. I assumed that to be; per day, averaged over a month.
25 kWh's x $0.09 national average = $2.25 per day x 30 days = $67.50 per month.
Is this correct?
$2.25 per day doesn't look like a lot does it?

One of the arguments I have read form RE enthusiasts about this is that, this isn't the whole cost, that there is money being paid to maintain the established electric power grid as a whole that is not reflected on that monthly bill. They say that money comes from the American taxpayers in the form of subsidies and other items as doled out by the U.S. government. The catch phrase is, "if your on grid, your paying for your power and light out of more than one pocket."
http://www.homepower.com/home/
 Well... I could say the same thing about RE. I also read about billions of tax dollars going to the RE industry, as a whole, for R&D and to promote the use of RE. Then there is the government incentives to end users to buy RE. There is even a certain amount of, what can only be called "gripping" in those articles because the coal, oil and, nuclear fired electric energy providers get more tax dollars than the RE industries get.
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/home
Please don't get wrong, I am not against RE, its just that I have lived off grid for 30 years. Only in the last 10 years have I had any electricity here at home, and that all comes from PV. The first 20 years was with no electricity what so ever. So I hope you can see, I have a some what unique perspective. I don't need, either one of these energy pushers. For that matter, I believe the one reason for the world wide human population explosion that started around the 1900's is because of the increased use of fossil fuels and electricity.
http://www-popexpo.ined.fr/english.html
I can see this in the time lines that history provides.
The discoveries of these energies happen at an earlier time but the wide spread utilization of them by the masses becomes established just prior to the 1930's.
But think about this. For well over 7,000 years mankind did not need all of these energies we take for granted today. We are a living testimony to this fact. It has only taken a little more than 100 years, and we have gotten to the point where we believe that we cannot live without these energies. From the beginnings of mankind up to the 1900's, (how many thousands of years?) world population is estimated to have reached 2 billion people. From the 1900's to present day that number has reached 6.5 billion. 4.5 billion more in just 108 years. I don't know about you, but to me, that fact is frightening.
Pity about Earth.
 
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 30, 2008 04:31 am

#338 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: Skystream offgrid?
Was "sweeping" out my favorites "closet" (only about a gazillion and half of'em) and found this, - http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/rbs/farmbill/contacts.html - seems like ancient history now.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 29, 2008 03:27 pm

#339 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: Skystream offgrid?
That is a question probably best answered by your electric power provider. You might find something to go on at one of these sites.

http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/map2.cfm?CurrentPageID=1&State=ND&RE=1&EE=0

http://www.eere.energy.gov/greenpower/buying/buying_power.shtml?state=ND
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 29, 2008 02:34 pm

#340 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: please review my system design
Correct. PV module frames, PV array mounts, metal boxes, etc., etc.. If metallic conduit is used to a breaker panel with concentric knockouts for example, then a grounding bushing should be used. If all of the PV system is in a "power shed" it should have its own ground rod as well a third EGC going to any other building it is supplying power to and it should have its own ground rod. One of the biggest reasons for all of this redundant grounding is to insure that if continuity is lost on the EGC somewhere along the way there is always continuity to Earth for an EGC. In my area this is taken very seriously. Inspectors want to see one of two things, ether two ground rods 6 foot apart, or one ground rod certified by a third party. We just drive two.
I can just imagine some guy thinking he was going to start up a business certifying ground rods, only to find that most folks would just drive in two. 
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 28, 2008 01:11 pm

#341 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: please review my system design
It would all seem to be good, but of course, I am not going to be your electrical inspector, so...

It takes a set of rare conditions for a PV module to exceed its Isc ratings by 156% but if it does, as I am sure you already know, we want to "catch" all of that power too, but if your concerned about the amp ratings of that 18 gauge wire then use a breaker just a little bigger than the 2.028, say a 4 amp breaker.

One concern I have, but not so much for your system, is that the Midnight Solar people do not give a total amp rating of the MNPV6 panel. Maybe I just didn't see it.

Again, #8 THHN is rated for 40 amps but that doesn't mean you have to use a 40 amp breaker. You could use a 30 amp breaker. Just cant go higher than 40 of course, but I assume you know that.
Don't forget the EGC (Equipment Grounding Conductor).
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 27, 2008 07:56 pm

#342 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: DC-GFP Installation
I tried for nearly an hour to find a diagram that shows exactly how to wire a GFP breaker into a PV source circuit of a PV array mounted onto a dwelling and I could not find not one diagram or schematic or even an installation manual.
To think that these things were required by the NEC on PV source circuits at a time when nobody even made such a thing.
The closest thing I could find is at HomePower.com if you go there, just type it into search and its the second article, I think.

To be sure, whoever made your GFP breaker, sent a diagram?
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 27, 2008 06:55 pm

#343 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: 12 volt vs 24 volt with inverter use
It depends. You write that you have "12 volt paralleled battery bank" but you do not say wether it is; 2-12v batteries or, 4-6v batteries. If 6-2v batteries then no.
If you wire your batteries for 24 volts nominal and you have a multimeter, you can find which two terminals will give you 12 volts.
But I do not recommend doing this. For one thing, as the batteries age, it can cause big problems. Besides, why take the chance on damaging something?
The best practice is to wire and utilize the batteries at one nominal voltage.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 27, 2008 06:24 pm

#344 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: how to wire in a shunt for battery?
Hi James
If you will, go to the page that you have created a link to and scroll down until you see - Product Documentation -  and all the way to the right is a + sign, then click on that. A window will drop down with three choices, click on the PDF file that is a diagram, the second one down I believe. This will show you where and how to wire in the shunt on the negative side of the system depending on what you want to measure, wether its battery state of charge or perhaps just PV output or whatever.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 22, 2008 05:28 pm

#345 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Smaller Generator with Capacitor
I need to add to this, that, while the car battery in the above proposed scenario would be "acting" like a capacitor, it is not a capacitor.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/capacitor.htm
It is the intent of a lead acid battery to convert electric energy into a chemical energy and store that energy until such time as it is needed as electric energy again.
 To give you an example, I have read stories about off-roaders welding broken axles with nothing but battery power supplied to a welding rod, as a quick fix to get back to camp. Like wise, to much of a load placed on a battery, forcing it to give up to much power to fast, can be like putting a steel wrench across the positive and negative terminals of the battery. Kaboom!
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 22, 2008 09:40 am

#346 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Smaller Generator with Capacitor
"A car battery"
As in 12 volt nominal "cranking" battery?
1012 / 230 = 5 amps
1012 / 12 = 85 amps
That might work.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question219.htm
Although I wouldn't try it with the battery still in my car.
If a problem occurs with the inverter or pump motor... well, there are probabilities and then there are possibilities.

Probabilities - A measure of how likely it is that some event will occur; a number expressing the ratio of favourable cases to the whole number of cases possible

Possibilities - The fact or state of being possible.

Even though someting will probably not happen it is possible.
All I can honestly tell you is what I might do, and that is, keep what you have for now and invest my money in a large, true deep cycle battery bank and a 120/240 inverter with charger. Then as time and money allowed, invest in PV, and or wind, and or water genny's. Gradually weening myself off of the ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) genny. Eventualy shutting it down for good one day or, at least having it ready for those short, gloomy days, one after another, during the Winter months.

As for sizing the battery bank and inverter. You would have make those calculations based on your power usage.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 22, 2008 07:25 am

#347 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: Need help in Charlottesville VA
Then there is -
http://energy.sourceguides.com/businesses/byGeo/US/byS/VA/byB/serv/install/byP/solar/solar.shtml -
hope something helps.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 22, 2008 07:18 am

#348 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: Need help in Charlottesville VA
One place you could try is -
http://www.nabcep.org/resources.cfm -
scroll down to the bottom of their home page.

You might find something -
http://www.vsbn.org/buildingamerica.shtml -
I dont know, I just kind a "read over" it all.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 17, 2008 05:52 am

#349 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: I need help with the math!
I am not going to tell you how many you need but maybe I can help you to understand the math involved.
25,000 watthours divided by the number of equivalent hours of full rated output from a PV (photovoltaic) module.
In other words all of the power produced over the period of a day divided by a PV modules full rated wattage.
You can find that at this site.
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/redbook/atlas/
Select; Average, Annual, and Flat Plate Tilted South at Latitude. Find your area on the map and that is what you would divided by.

I am just going to pick a number out of the "hat."
4 hours of equivalent full rated output per sunny day.
25,000 / 4 = 6,250 watt PV array and at $4.00 per watt not installed equals $25,000.
You say your paying $60. a month now for grid power?
$25,000 / $60 = 34 years of electric bills.
Of course PV can be modular, which means you do not have to install it all at one time. You could have a PV array installed with provisions of adding more to it as time goes by. It sounds as though you are thinking about a "grid interactive" system. No batteries. You could search in your area for qualified supplier/installers and maybe get a quote. Who knows you might get lucky and find one that does it all for you "turn key," including any government handouts oh!, I mean tax incentives, to help you purchase a system




On a personal note, I had greater expectations from the RE (renewable energies) industry. More so from the PV industry. It would seem, to my mind anyway that, all that has happend is, RE has jump into bed with the politician's and other energy producers, all three holding their hands out wanting more and more tax payers money. I will give them this much, RE has convinced the politician's and energy producers to use saving the planet as a selling point.
In the words of Jethro Tull, "he who made little kittens, also put snakes in the grass."
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 15, 2008 06:40 am

#350 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Solar Power for a pond pump.
Hello Michael.
First of all, there is nothing inexpensive about renewable energies. Its a sellers market.
I will try not to get overly technical but without being so simple as to be insulting. Thats not easy for me. I need space to move around in.

What you really need for the system you described is a PV direct pump controller or Liner Current Booster (LCB). It can make the adjustments in volts and amps from the PV module necessary to operate a pump motor that needs a voltage and amperages different to the PV module. Also, look at the wattage difference in what you have. 
2.2 X 18 = 39.6 watts PV source.
versus
4 X 13.6 = 54.4 watts motor load.
If you want to go PV direct then you will need more wattage to use an LCB.
http://www.solarseller.com/dc_photoswitch__dc_timer__voltage_controlled_switch_dc_relay.htm

If you use batteries you will need to know how long the pump is to run at night. I will use 6 hours for an example.
Using the wattage of your pump motor 54.4 simply multiply by 6 and you have 326.4 watthours. Then divided that by the nominal voltage of 12 and we have 27.2 amphours. But! You would want to "bump" that up by a factor or two because if you didn't it would kill the battery dead in no time and you would be replacing batteries quite often. In your case I would say two - 6 volt - 220 amphour deep cycle batteries wired in series would do nicely and they are a commonly found golf cart battery. Of course a simple charge controller rated for the 40 watt PV module you have would be necessary and an enclosure box. Also, depending on just how often it was used at night, it may need more PV or a supplemental charge from the grid.
http://www.solarseller.com/solar_charge_controllers_from_morningstar__powermax_and_others_.htm

As always with electrical its important to look at and match the rated specifications of all devices used in a system. This is, I bet, what can be the most fatiguing. Imagine if this was the major part of your daily job chore. Sizing everything electrical per NEC, National Electrical Code. It does get easier after a time though.

As for keeping cost down...you just have decide what you want from the pump and do some comparison shopping. If you find that you have to replace the pump/motor anyway, look for complete kits where everything is already sized for you. I used those links above only as a comparison. Our host, Alternative Energy Store, should have these same devices.

 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 14, 2008 05:43 am

#351 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > In the Carolina's today
I just wanted to bring all of this to the attention of the RE comunities of the rest of this American nation.
http://www.fws.gov/pocosinlakes/
I would like to think renewable energies is not just about energy alone, now that it has moved into the private sector
http://www.wilderness.org/WhereWeWork/NorthCarolina/pocosinlakes.cfm
That there is some truth to the advertising that promotes saving the planet by using energy made from a non-polluting renewable resource.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/07/national/main4161827.shtml
All a big coincidence? Maybe. If the next story I post here is the landing strip being built, I guess we'll know then.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 13, 2008 04:21 pm

#352 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Solar water pump help needed
Wow! Nothing could substitute actually being on site and seeing first hand what there is to deal with, but here it goes anyway.
One way to line the well is with concrete casings. They come in different diameters and lengths. Do you plan on digging by hand?
There is another way if you have access to a welder.
Take a 4 foot piece of 1-1/4" steel pipe then weld a loop over one end to tie a rope to. Then find a thick washer that will fit inside the other end and weld it in about an inch inside. Then you will need a steel bearing that covers the hole in the washer. Drop it inside. Start a piece of pipe in the ground that will be the casing, with a big enough inside diameter for the 1 1/4" "digger" pipe to fit inside of easily. There will need to be water in the lager pipe. The idea is, when you drop the "digger" pipe inside, it goes down and picks up dirt and water and the ball bearing traps it. You pull it up and dump it out, and do it again. Don't forget to recover the ball bearing and drop it back inside the "digger" pipe. It is also necessary to tap the casing pipe down a little every now and then. Not to hard though, you don't want to collapse it at the bottom. Do this over and over.
Believe it or not I went down 30 foot like this with a 2 inch PVC casing. It took a while because the water had to recuperate, but it was a good "workout" anyway. After that I put a plastic 1" pipe down just shy of the bottom and made up a pitcher pump on top. It gives up about 10 gallons over 24 hours. We were hoping to hit an artesian well. A neighbor nearby (half a mile) hit one on his place. not a lot of water. It just does trickle out of his well when left open, but it would do this 24/7.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-artesian-well.htm

If there is already an elevated tank on the premise, I would probably go there and use a pump run straight from PV modules. A lot would depend the static water level of the new well. One thing is for sure, you've got your home work cut out for you. Is a wind powered pump an option in you region?
http://www.aermotorwindmills.com/
Let us know how it all works out for you, ok?
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 8, 2008 12:43 pm

#353 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: america has its head up its ass
In my household, we use 2/3 less electricity than any one of the majority of lighted billboard signs along the I-95 corridor.
Assuming, 2 - 400 watt Metal Halide fixtures burning for 10 hours each night.
I want to use less electricity. Not more.


If you want to awaken a sleeping giant Soloman Azar, ( http://dbs2000ad.com/narayan/egghead-personality.htm ) then keep writting those remarks. Just don't be surprised if you find your head in an awkward position one day.

My sincerest apologies to Alternative Energy Store and its viewers for my outbursts. I would hope that this entire posting be erased.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 8, 2008 12:06 pm

#354 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Mix Match panels
It is possible. They will need diodes to prevent one PV module from "bleeding" power onto the other but allow the power from each to "move on" through the PV source circuit.
Write down the open circuit voltage and the short circuit amprage from each of your modules. Take this to a electronics dealer/repair person in your area and explain to him what you are wanting to achieve. Be sure this person knows that PV modules get hot sitting perpendicular to the Sun.
In the mean time here is some informative reading material.
http://photovoltaics.sandia.gov/
Some more fun with PV.
http://www.udel.edu/igert/pvcdrom/index.html
And last but not least, a clue.
http://store.solar-electric.com/blocdiod8amp.html
From our gracious host we have - http://store.altenergystore.com/Enclosures-Electrical-and-Safety/Miscellaneous-Electrical-Parts/Blocking-Diodes/c513/
You will need two of course. One for each module. Be sure to match each diode you use to the PV modules rating that it is used on. Just dont under size it.
Are you any good at soldering? If not a terminal strip may work.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 7, 2008 02:04 pm

#355 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: On-Line UPS
We are using a Samlex 600 watt 12 vdc "true sine wave" inverter to supply 120 vac to our; computer, tv, vcr/dvd, telephone w/answering, and fax machine. All is well so far after 2 years. Tried a Trace DR 1512 but it messed up the monitor in about a years time. Samlex does not have pass through or charge ability like the DR but you give a little, you get a little and all that.


http://www.homepower.com/home/

Perhaps you are looking for a "true sine wave" inverter that has pass through and charge capabilities. There is quite a few to choose from.
Calculate the amount of power used by all you want to power over a 24 hour period. Most electric products will have a name plate showing volts and amps or volts and watts. Ether way you will want to know watts and for how long it will be in use over 24 hours.
Example: computer takes 80 watts and is in use 10 hours a day. Simple.
 10 x 80 = 800 watt hours.
800 / 12* = 67 amp hours. (12* = 12 volts nominal)
67 x 5* = 335 amphour battery bank at 12 volt nominal.
(5* = multiplier that keeps the amount of battery discharge within the top 20% of full charge.)
To replace that 67 amps in one sunny day with PV:
12 x 67 = 800 watts / 4* = 200 watt PV array.
(4* = 4 hours of equivalent full rated charge from a PV module.) Your hours may vary.
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/redbook/atlas/

Part 2 - Yes. Obviously, any type of charge going to a battery has to be controlled. Other wise it, or things around it, would catch on fire and burn your house down to the ground. This leads us to the NEC or the National Electrical Code and one reason why there are licensed electrical contractors. As well, there may be required permits before starting any electrical work and inspections by the local authority having jurisdiction. Wether it be city or county or state.

http://photovoltaics.sandia.gov/docs/Design_and_Installation_of_PV_Systems.htm


Size things for the future as well. Because once you see what RE can do, you will want more and more.
http://www.dsireusa.org/index.cfm?EE=0&RE=1

 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 7, 2008 01:57 am

#356 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: Paint / Coat roof to reflect sun's energy?
Unfortunately modernistic building practices do not lend themselves to the convection principles found in nature. They come from a time when a lot of homes had to be built in a hurry and affordably to keep up with a population explosion. In my region there are still homes being lived in that never had insulation in the walls or ceiling or floors. Single pane windows and an open crawl space foundation. Knob and tube wiring. One, although not lived in, still has its original 120 volt 30 amp utilities service intact.
 Several characteristics of these homes are high ceilings and tall windows close to the floor, as well as plaster and lathe interior wall finish. Some with Horse hair in the plaster. Large Oak trees all around, front porches and sheet metal roofs. Its a common site here in the Carolinas.

I can only imagine that they were very hot in the Summer and very cold in the Winter but that it made for a very interesting character, for those that lived in them back then.

Now, in contrast to that old style there is Earth sheltered homes. If only they had been the established way instead of the stick built homes.
http://www.daviscaves.com/index.shtml
http://www.thenaturalhome.com/
And then there is...
http://www.limsi.fr/Individu/mpons/solaradsor.htm
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 3, 2008 06:09 am

#357 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Diversion mode, Blocking diodes, 600 watt heating element
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. 
                                            Albert Einstein


I think I understand what you are wanting to know, but may need more information to give better assistance.

One of the things I try to do, but do no always achieve, is to incourage folks to find there own way of understanding.
As an example: There was a time when I had trouble understanding how to wire 3 way - 4 way light switches. All it took was for someone to say, " you can have as many 4 way switches as you want along a hallway, as long as there is a 3 way at each end of the hallway."
Where this may not work for anyone else its all it took for me.
Another example was the understanding of flooded cell lead acid battery. Flipping through the pages of an old high school chemistry text book one day, I read the words, "batteries do not store electricity, they convert electric energy into a chemical energy and store that energy until such time as electricity is needed and then convert chemical energy back into electric energy." After that, no more mystery.
Getting back to the subject.
You have 2 - 130 watt PV modules for a total of 260 watts.
What would be the yearly average of equivlent number of hours of full rated charge?

http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/redbook/atlas/

I am going to guess 4.
So, 260 multiplied by 4 equals 1040 watts per sunny day.
You have a 24 volt nominal system so this would mean 1040 divided by 24 equals 43 amp hours per sunny day.

Have 2 mid-size deep cycle battries,

This, at best, is vague. You force me to have to guess again. Since your system is 24 volts nominal I can surmise they are 12 volts each and being "mid-size," by your standard, I can only guess there rated amp hour capacity since I don't know you well enough.
I am going to guess 100 amphours at the 20 hour rate.
http://www.criticalthinking.com/company/articles/deductive-reasoning-skills.jsp
Now, onto the load assessment;
1 - hot water pump - 170 watts over a 24 hour period = ?
2 - lap top        -  ?  watts over a 24 hour period = ?
3 - lamp           -  ?  watts over a 24 hour period = ?
4 - boom-box       -  ?  watts over a 24 hour period = ?
5 - clock          -  ?  watts over a 24 hour period = ?
6 - lighting       -  ?  watts over a 24 hour period = ?
7 - TV converter   -  ?  watts over a 24 hour period = ?

I am not even going to guess at all of these but I can tell you that you do not want to use sensitive electronics as a dump load from a wind genny. This is best done with a strictly resistive load. Also the Xantrex C-35 might ether be a charge controller or a load diversion. Not both at the same time. I will have to get back to you on that one after I have had a chance to read its manual. In addition I would recommend a battery monitor such as the Bogart Tri-metric 2020.
http://www.bogartengineering.com/
Can I assume that the wind genny's 800 watts is at top speed just before it self defeats?
http://www.windturbine.ca/waterheat.html
800 divided by 24 equals 33 amps.
After all is said and done, reading and understanding manufacturers product specifcation sheets, installation, and users manuals is of great importance.
I used the analogy once of comparing building an RE system to building a car. You first have to decide what you are going to do with it before you build it. Is it going to be a commuter or an eliminator or something in between?
http://www.kronosport.com/
versus
http://www.nedra.com/
Of course this would possible in a perfect world were we could all just shell out 50 grand like peanuts. If you're like me though, you are building your system gradually and learning as you go. One thing I learned living off grid for over 20 years without any electricity at all was, I can live without any electricity at all.
"What one man can do, another can do."
I've killed my bear, have you?
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jun 2, 2008 05:16 am

#358 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: 12 volt system
We face a simalar question with industrial electric motor applications, 120/208, 120/240, or 277/480, only we are limited most of the time to whatever grid service is allready in place.

Unless I was expecting loads with potentially high amperages and/or loads with potentially long wire runs, I would use 12 volts nominal.
If I were planning to have all 120/240 vac loads from an inverter(s), then I would consider a higher nominal battery voltage.
Two - 4000 watt inverters for example have the potential for 8000 watts of load. At 12 volts nominal that would be 667 amps, at 24 - 333, and at 48 - 167. Obviously these numbers would get cut in half for each of the two inverters, if I were using a two pole fused disconnect between them and the battery.
If so, I could use a 100 amp disco. @ 48 nominal, 200 amp disco. @ 24, but at 12 volts nominal I would need a 400 amp disconnect. Not only would this last one be expensive but they are about as big a fridge.
 And I haven't even gotten into wire sizing for these examples. In all actuality the wire sizing should be done with the inverter(s) highest surge watt rating at vac and its low voltage dc cut off set point.
Have you ever seen a water hose with a whole lot of pressure and volume of water coming out and no one holding it? Wire will do the same thing when there is more amps on it than its size is rated for plus it could catch itself and other things around it on fire. www.nfpa.org

Of course there is no way that I could fully know what all of your loads are, so I am just making up examples.
 Such as, lighting loads at the nominal battery voltage. A 100 watt incandescent bulb at 12 volt nominal will draw 8 amps, so at best you could get 2 of them per 20 amp circuit on awg #12 wire. Chances are, in a conventional built home, the length of the wire for that circuit and the lower voltage would make it necessary to put only one 100 watt bulb on that circuit due to power loss. With two there would be light but not as brite.

Its all a little like building a car. You have to know what you going to do with it first, a commuter or an eliminator, then you can build it.
http://www.kronosport.com/
versus
http://www.nedra.com/

I would go on but its time for work. There seems to be no end to trouble shooting problems with industrial motor controls and motors.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on May 31, 2008 01:08 pm

#359 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: charge controller and inverter recomendations
Oops! you wanted to know about batteries also.
Sizing for the future is a lot like forecasting the weather you know, but a "rule of thumb" for off grid systems that I go by is to size the anticipated load (and any future load) in watt hours or kilowatt hours then divide that by the battery banks anticipated nominal voltage. This will give you amp hours of capacity. Then multiply that by a factor of 5.
What your "connection" has is probably 220 amp hour batteries (spec. sheet) at 6 volts each. With 8 of them you could have; a 48 volt nominal bank at 220 amp hours or a, 24 volt bank at 440 amp hour or a, 12 volt bank at 880 amp hours. 
Basically what amp hours means is, for example, it will supply 220 amps for one hour or 1 amp for 220 hours or any computation in between. Do you see the logic?
Something else to familiarize you with electrical calculations is Ohm's law. Basically volts times amps is watts and so on and so forth. If you like - http://www.elec-toolbox.com/main.html
I feel like one of the best investments I made when starting out was a subscription to the Homepower magazine.
Knowledge is power!
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on May 31, 2008 12:44 pm

#360 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: charge controller and inverter recomendations
My first piece of advice would be to get ready to dig deep into those pockets of yours. If your are planning to seek any government incentives then plan on seeking a licensed electrical contractor because there will be permit(s) and inspection(s).

Something important here is to thoroughly and completely read and understand the specification sheets with any electrical device you are considering. Know there limits and ratings by UL standards. Familiarize yourself with the NEC, in particular Article 690.

http://photovoltaics.sandia.gov/docs/John_Wiles_Code_Corner.htm

The NEC gets "re-furbished" every three years, but the above site will "get your feet wet before the plunge" so to speak.

One thing you did not mention was, region.
Personally, to achieve, what I think you are wanting to achieve, I would install a back-up load center (breaker panel) and move those circuits I wished, from the existing panel to the back-up panel. For example; lights, refrigeration, communications, media, security. You will have to do a load calculation in order to size (spec. sheet) the inverter correctly. The inverter would be fed 120 vac from the existing grid fed panel by way of a dedicated circuit, it would then pass through the inverter to those back-up loads and maintain a charge on the battery. During a "black out," or you could turn that breaker off, the inverter would make 120 vac from the nominal vdc battery and send power only to those loads, not back onto the grid.
One example of the inverter you might be seeking could be the Xantrex 4048.
Oh man! I could go on and on with this stuff! I'll move on to the charge controller.
Again, read and understand those spec. sheets.
With the 1000 watt array you have and knowing you want to expand, you could look at the Out Back MX60. It would allow you to wire your PV modules at a much higher voltage (spec. sheet) while being able to charge at the battery banks nominal voltage.
The spec. sheets can be found at most RE dealers or the manufacturers web sites. Thats about it. Without more specific question, this is all I can tell you.
 

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