OutBack FlexMax 80

Jan 12, 2008 09:53 pm
OutBack FlexMax 80

Is OutBack trying to be misleading?
When sizing the electrical for a PV source circuit for example; wire size, disconnects, fuses, and this includes, but is not limited to, the charge controller, the NEC (National Electrical Code) dictates a correction factor of 125% of the short circuit rating of a PV module at STC(Standard Test Conditions.) Before this the UL (Underwriters Laboratories) dictates 125% of that same rating. Typically a correction factor of 156% is used to cover both of these. 125% X 125% = 156%.
An example: A PV module has an Soc. rating of 7.56 amps and you have ten such PV modules wired in parallel/series for a total of 37.8 amp Soc, at 24 volts nominal. Multiply that 37.8 X 156% = 59 amps.
There is another NEC correction factor for ambient low temperature but I am not going into that one at this time.

OutBacks claim is a Maximum output of direct current of 80 amps continuous. They do not give a maximum input from the PV source circuit with the 156% correction factor. They do how ever give some figures to that regard but in a very strange way.
1000 watts at 12 volts nominal?
I mean all I have to is divide 1000 watts by a particular PV modules Vpm or what I like to call its "working voltage" and that should give me the maximum number of PV modules I can put on a FlexMax 80 once I do a little more math.

Example: Here are the ratings of a Kyocera KC130TM;
17.6 volts at max. power
8.02 short circuit amps.
1000 / 17.6 = 56.81
56.81 / 8.02 = 7
So 7 - KC130TM's would be the maximum number one could place on the FlexMax assuming a 12 volt nominal battery bank.
I am sure there is a good reason for doing it this way but it sure does seem kinda like being made to "jump through hoops" if you know what I mean.
I suppose I could just divide the 1000 watts by the rated wattage if the PV module I might be using and get the same answer.
1000 / 130 = 7

Can anybody clarify this?
Is this math right?
 
163 Posts
Jan 13, 2008 11:03 am
Re: OutBack FlexMax 80

The "80" in FlexMax80 refers to the maximum current that it can handle, just like "60" in the MX60.

You are correct in your calculation that it will only handle 7 Kyocera 130 watt 12V panels if they are all in parallel, or perhaps 8 taking inefficiencies into consideration. However, it can handle four time that amount if you wire them in series for 48V.

The beauty of the FlexMax80, like the MX60, is that you can wire your panels for 48V or higher even if your battery bank is 12V since the controller will handle the step-down conversion.

I started reading Outback documentation about two years ago when I started the research for my system and I can say that is has gotten progressively worse since that time. They are probably using the engineers and developers (to whom it all makes sense) to write the documentation instead of hiring someone who could write it from the average person's perspective. Your best bet for understanding Outback products is to put your questions up on their user forum.
http://www.outbackpower.com/forum/
 
Jan 13, 2008 03:46 pm
Re: OutBack FlexMax 80

I sure didn't see that.
So basically its advertised ratings are just like all other charge controllers, if its a MX60 its good for 60 amps of PV input. If its a C40 its good for 40 amps of PV input. This would include the 156% correction factor to satisfy the NEC and UL notion that a PV module can exceed its rated short circuit amperage under specifically occurring natural weather phenomenon.

So the FlexMax 80 has a UL listed rating for a total of  80 amps input with the 156% added in, from a PV source.

If I were to subtract the 156% from 80 that would be 51 amps total of short circuit ratings for a given set of PV modules wired at any given nominal voltage?
Or another way of saying it, the total of the PV source should not exceed 51 amps of short circuit ratings? By the same token, a C60's total PV source would be limited to 38 amps.

Does this look right?

I've got to say that if this is all correct its really over kill where the charge controllers are concerned. I can agree with that 156% where wire size and the disconnects before and after the controller are concerned but not when a charge controller has its own built in overcurrent protection!?

I have yet to find anything about this though in the NEC.
 
578 Posts
Jan 14, 2008 10:09 am
Re: OutBack FlexMax 80

this is a fabulous discussion.  it takes me a while to train new staff on applicaple de-rations to equipment for sizing all things (wire, controller, disconnects) relating to charge controllers.

the 60 and the 80 respectively refer to output current. the amount of input current is related to the ratio of input to output voltage.  for example, without any derations, the mx 60 has these guidlines:

12v output: 800w
24v output: 1600w
48v output: 3200w

which means at 12v out put the input current fluctuates with input voltage.

12v in 12v out, 60a available on input side before deration
24v in 12v out, 30a available on input side before deration
48 in 12v out, 15a avaialable on input side before deration


three other points are important to note here.

first with 18v modules and these controllers, sometimes the ratios are not as obvious.  36, 54, and 60v may be possible, so the amount of input current must adjusted in relation to output voltage.

second, since one of the 1.25 derations is for the 3 hour continuous operation rule, there is the exception for items that are listed at 100% of their rating.  this means while the pv output circuit conductors are sized for 1.56 as per NEC, the controller with a continous rating can get away with only 1.25 x array ISC for over irradiance.

lastly, with new 80a controllers, if used to full potential, a minimum of 80a circuit breakers may be required.  these only exist as stud mount not din rail as the largest is 63a, so this plays into dc load center selection.  also, circuit breakers are subject to the 3 hour continous rule, so the designer must know if the circuit breakers planning to be used are rated for 100% continuous, or have to be derated.


this is an important issue, please contribute your thoughts. 

cheers,

james
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