New to Solar--have a few questions!

1 Posts
Apr 22, 2008 04:48 pm
New to Solar--have a few questions!

I live in Southern California, and I'd like to tinker a little with solar. Having very little electrical background, but not afraid to wield a soldering iron, I'd like to buy a panel or two, a charge controller, a few batteries, an inverter, and be able to start off powering some small devices (mainly AA battery chargers), and work my way up to having my garage off grid.

My questions:
1) I am decided on going with a single 180w Grid-Tie-Style panel to start. Probably the Evergreen or Kyocera 180w panel. What's the cheapest MPPT controller I can start off with that's going to work well with a single panel and can stand the stress when I add additional panels?

My utility doesn't give credit for generated electricity (I checked), so I don't have any incentive to grid tie--plus I want to eventually look at moving away from SoCal, and off the grid. That and learning the whole battery thing is more fun and adventurous. =)

2) I'm looking for batteries. How do a gauge what size battery system I need? Again... I'm looking to start small and build up. I'm pretty sure I want gel-celled batteries, but any environmentally friendly batteries are OK. Being that I'm looking at tinkering, I don't need a gigantic battery bank at first, but I would like to buy batteries that I can continue purchasing more of, that work well together.

Any diagrams of typical battery configurations--potential caveats and things to be aware of?

I also need to find out what type/gauge of wiring/connectors works with the batteries.

3) How does the inverter connect to the batteries? Directly to the battery leads?? is there an output on the charge controller??

Obviously I need some sort of fuse as well.

I have a small automotive inverter that I'm planning on using at first, before moving up.

4) I have a number of DC devices--laptops and computer equipment that wouldn't necessarily need AC adapters, provided they were given the right amount of voltage/current. Is there an easy solution to ditch the AC adapters and run them specifically off the DC current from the batteries to maximize efficiency? Also, are there inexpensive Li-Ion AA/AAA battery chargers that can run off of DC as well (or maybe a really cool charge controller that can tie right in?)

Thanks in advance! I'm really excited to jump into this. Also looking for really good books and online materials on the subject!

JK
 
2 Posts
Apr 22, 2008 11:29 pm
Re: New to Solar--have a few questions!

Hi Jon,

I just installed a small PV system on my RV recently and encountered many of the same questions regarding system design.

1) Although many 180 watt panels offer an excellent $/watt ratio, they are physically quite large and therefore can be difficult to work with. You may also want to consider something in the 130 watt range to start off with such as this:

http://store.altenergystore.com/Solar-Panels/100-to-149-Watts-Solar-Panels/Kyocera-KC130TM-130W-12V-Solar-Panel-w-J-Box/p2403/

A great MPPT controller is the Blue Sky 2000e. It's a little more expensive than the non-MPPT controllers, but it is very efficient. It can handle up to 25 amps for future expansion of a small systems. If you plan on going totally off-grid in the near future, then you may want to consider something larger, but it would really be overkill at this point based on what you mentioned about your current needs.

2) To get the longest life out of your batteries, you should never discharge them more than 50% if possible. So the first thing you should do is calculate what you anticipate your total energy needs (in amps) will be per day. Then you can pick a battery that will provide sufficient capacity for your needs while taking into consideration the 50% rule.

Generally 6 volt flooded cell deep cycle batteries (wired in a series to produce 12v), provide the best value for the money. Sealed batteries are considerably more $ for the same capacity.

10/2 gauge wire will work great for your present needs and future expansion.

A baby box would work great for over-current protection. Circuit breakers should be sized based on the specs of your PV panel, controller, inverter and load needs.

http://store.altenergystore.com/Enclosures-Electrical-and-Safety/Electrical-Enclosures/DisconnectLoad-Enclosures/AC-andor-DC/Midnite-Solar-MNBabyBox-4-Slot-AC-or-DC-Breaker-Panel/p4480/

Check out the schematic here (click on the cabin image):
http://store.altenergystore.com/descfiles/kits2go/kitcabin1/cabin-170w.jpg
for an idea how to connect everything. In addition, most controllers will have instructions on how to wire everything up. Check out the PDF instruction manuals for those products available on this site.

4) Running your small appliances/electronics direct from DC will be a little more efficient than using an inverter as you loose some efficiency in the conversion process and the inverter also uses a small amount of energy. Many laptops, battery chargers, etc offer 12v car chargers that would work well in a PV system such as this. However, it may be more cost effective to just use an inverter, rather than buying new car cords for everything. One thing to consider regarding inverters is that some battery chargers (lithium batteries in particular) can not run from modified sine wave inverters. I am using a Samlex Pure Sine wave inverter and have been very happy with it.

http://store.altenergystore.com/Inverters/Off-Grid-No-Utility-Needs-Batteries/300-to-999-Watts/c600/

Hope that helps. Good luck with your project!

Bob
 
Apr 27, 2008 07:13 am
Re: New to Solar--have a few questions!

www.homepower.com
Speaking for myself, a subscription to Homepower magazine was one of the greatest investments that I made towards utilizing photovotaics in order to have electric lighting instead of candles and kerosene lamps.

A copy of the National Electrical Code came in real handy. Article 690 in particular but not limited to it. Something to remember about this is that the NEC is an institution of the NFPA National Fire Protection Agency. www.nfpa.org

You may already be familiar with Ohm's Law.
http://www.elec-toolbox.com/main.html

Like you, I started small. 2) Solarex MSX 77's, 2) 8-D "Big Rig" cranking batteries, 1) Trace C-30 A charge controller and, 2) DC rated fused disconnects. All for DC lighting and a radio.

I was fortunate in the sense that both of my parents were knowledgable of electronics, to put it mildly. This means I grew up hearing words like Ohm's Law and learning about electricity and the math behind it.
Local community colleges sometimes offer beginners electrical wiring classes.
Not only will you learn what they have to teach but you have the potential of making friends with electricians. That alone could be worth the tuition fee. Just being exposed to the words and practices of electrical wiring give you something to extrapolate from. Kinda like how you want to start small with your PV system and learn as you build it bigger and better. Electricians aren't so bad once you get to know them. Now there are some licensed electrical contractors out there I don't care to much for but I guess that goes with any type of contracted work.

One more for the road. http://photovoltaics.sandia.gov/docs/John_Wiles_Code_Corner.htm
« Last Edit: Apr 27, 2008 07:16 am by Thomas Allen Schmidt »
 
184 Posts
Apr 28, 2008 09:39 am
Re: New to Solar--have a few questions!

Thomas and Robert have already provided some good advice, but I would just like to add this:

You may want to start with a pure sine wave inverter instead of the MSW inverter you have in mind.  I started with a MSW inverter and wish that I hadn't wasted the money.  Motors ran at the wrong speed, making my timers useless.  I had noise in the audio of my radio.  I had streaks in the TV picture. I was always worried that I would damage something, so I seldom used the inverter. 

You might want to start with a 300-watt sine wave inverter instead, as your loads are fairly light.  Later, when you upgrade to a more powerful sine wave inverter, you'll still want to use the 300-watt unit at times because that will be more efficient than to use a big inverter for a small load.

Just MHO.
John
 
 
Apr 28, 2008 01:46 pm
Re: New to Solar--have a few questions!

I second John D's advice on pure sinewave inverters.
 Only in keeping true to form I have to say they are really not so pure.
 Square wave, modified square wave, and "pure" sine wave inverters are anything but sinusoidal. They are stepped imitations of sinusoidal waves. When we represent sinusoidal waves for demonstration purposes we create a 2 dimensional wave but in real life a sinusoidal wave is 3 dimensional.
Imagine a Slinky stretched out long.
 This 3 dimensional sinusoidal wave can only be achieved by a revolving force. Anything else is just an imitation. But in the case of electronic "pure" sine wave inverters, its a good enough imitation. Certainly better than the modified square wave or square wave inverters. The following is the best repsentation of what I am writting about. It actually shows a sine and cosine waves out of phase with each other much like the 120/240 vac single phase power provided by the power companies for residential use. For three phase power such as 120/208 vac used in commercial applications or, 277/480 vac used for industrial purposes, or even 120/240 vac 3 phase with a high leg typically used in rural agricultural areas, just imagine a third wave out of phase with the other two.
http://www.rkm.com.au/ANIMATIONS/animation-sine-wave.html
Here is another place to have some fun. http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/electromag/java/index.html

Well I guess I've gone on long enough about that. The Sun is "back out," I am going to go weld some steel together now, using four 12 volt batteries wired in series for 48 vdc.
http://www.offroad-review.com/product_reviews/READYWELDER/READYWELDER.htm
 

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