Chris Brown's posts

This conversation has highlighted the need for independent body to assess the performance of wind generators in a controlled setting. Solar thermal collectors are rated by the SRCC ( www.solar-rating.org ). Tools like PV watts and RETscreen in conjunction with PTC ratings allow us to have a fairly realistic understanding of how a solar electric system will function over time in real world applications.

http://www.retscreen.net/

http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/codes_algs/PVWATTS/version1/derate.cgi

http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/cgi-bin/eligible_pvmodules.cgi

I have found less independent sources for wind generator performance. It looks like NREL is looking to do some studies, but not a comprehensive consumer report:

http://www.nrel.gov/business_opportunities/solicitations_rfps.html

The CEC has a list of eligible wind turbines for tax rebates in California:

http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/cgi-bin/eligible_smallwind.cgi

Home Power also has a nifty wind turbine buyers guide on pages 34-40 of issue 119.

As a consumer, I would do as much research as possible before making any purchases. One of the most important things you can do is know your average wind speed as accurately as possible. Install an anemometer for several months if not a year before buying any wind turbine. Read Home Power. Talk to other people that have wind generators installed. Check out http://www.wind-works.org/

I prefer the more traditional ridged framed solar panel rather then a solar shingle. The biggest downside to the shingle in my eyes is the amount of electrical connections. Consider a 1000 watt PV array. If you were to use five 200w modules your array could consist of 4 series connections. If you were to use the shingles, at 17 watts each, your talking about 55+ series and parallel connections. While all that wiring at the beginning might not be so bad, what happens if one connection comes loose sometime in the next twenty to forty years? I would much rather troubleshoot a system with 4 electrical connections then one with 50. The trouble shooting of the system with that many connections is the biggest limiting factor in my mind.

If you are going to install the system yourself, and it's your first PV installation, solar shingles may not be the best place to start because of the complicated wiring. It may be hard to find an installer willing to work with the shingles. A lot of installers I talk to don't work with the shingles because of the complication of the wiring.

The price of the shingles is about 1$ more per watt then the most expensive 200w ridge frame modules and flush mounting combined. I don't know how much non-pv shingles cost, so it's hard to do a real price comparison.

It really comes down to opinion. Some people would argue that the building integration of the tiles is environmentally friendly because you are using less resources in constructing your home. It's hard to argue this. A lot of people like the ascetics of the shingle. I think traditional solar panels look cool- so again it's a matter of opinion.

I've talked to a number of unhappy freetricity 'E2D' owners. Here's a quote from there site: "The average household in the US uses 10 kilowatts a day". Where did they get that information...It doesn't even make sense! From readying the Freetricity site it seems they don't even know the difference between power and energy. [Munched by Nick]

I don't think there is any misinformation in the learning section of our site. I don't think this is misinformation in our store section either. We may have some information that is out of date- but we don't have any information that is posted to knowingly deceive or mislead our clients. We handle over 4,000 different products and work very hard to keep the information on these products as current and accurate as possible. If you find any information on our site that is out of date please contact us using the "Have a suggestion? Found a bug?" link to the left of the page, or log in and contact your sales person directly. We are working to not only be the best supplier of renewable energy products, but also a leader in renewable energy information.

I was talking with a client today who is looking for a "neutral isolated meter socket" that was required by his utility inspector for his PV grid tie system. I had never heard of this requirement before (or this type of meter) and I wasn't able to find much on Google either.

Has anyone heard about these?

If a "renewable power facility uses solar energy, it must be at least 50 kilowatts in size, but other renewable power facilities must be at least 1 megawatt in size."

That's a lot of PV!

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story;jsessionid=A6566B3A49EC30236C9361ACE2121B40?id=49845

Hello James,

It's really hard to say what type of fluid is being heated! In Tom's reply to your last post he wrote "That specific tank does not have a heat exchanger, so there can not be any antifreeze in the solar loop." However I have read about systems that use a tank like the one you have with an external heat exchanger. If that is the case, you most likely have an antifreeze/water mix.

At the same time, it's possible that there is a drain back tank somewhere else in the system (not pictured), in which case you would be heating water directly and draining it from the system at night. Is it possible that there is a smaller tank (say 5-15 gallons) hiding out somewhere between this picture and the collectors?

It might be a good idea to hire a solar hot water system specialist to come to your place and check out the system to see if it's working correctly. If your interested in learning more about solar hot water systems I would recommending reading Bob Ramlow's Book, Solar Water Heating, Comprehensive Guide. We are also offering a Solar Hot Water Heating workshop on August 18th and 19th.

http://store.altenergystore.com/Books-Workshops-Videos/Solar-Hot-Water-Books/Solar-Water-Heating-Comprehensive-Guide/p4343/

http://workshops.altenergystore.com/Solar-Water-Heating-From-the-Basics-to-Installation-Sat-Aug-18-Sun-Aug-19/e15/

-Chris

"And there is the question again, what is gravity?"

In my studies of philosophy, for the most part, whenever you get deep into anything you end up asking yourself, "what is x anyhow?". I stopped worrying about finding 'necessary and sufficient' definitions, mostly cuz i couldn't find any, and started to think more pragmatically (a typical American story).   

"Didn't the string theorists figure it out?"

They might have! I read Feyman's QED and pretty much gave up after that.

"Maybe the analogy is correct but, I don't think the web is the cause of gravity but a vision of a negligible side affect of what the "ether" looks like due to masses moving through it."

This might be referring to the graph paper/basket ball analogy. I didn't mean this to imply that space/time was the  cause of gravity... it's more like the field that gravity is played on. And I'm no physicist! This is just the way I feel the universe to be from some stuff I've read. From my recollection, "ether" was a reference to an absolute space, where the photon's launched traveling on a train would move faster then the photons launched from a stationary position. I don't think general theory of relativity implies that space/time is the cause of gravity, mass still is. It's the basketball that is curving the paper.

"I think the electro-magnetic field is too geometrically large for us to detect and maybe so weak we can't detect it."

I know some people that have been hit with some seriously strong DC current that might have a contrary option.

"thank goodness someone is out there providing products to minimize our current impact on the environment - and why I joined this website."

I'm glad your here FD!

"How about this question. Are Gravity and molecular cohesion one and the same?"

As far as I know they are not, and that's been one of the big issues in physics for the last 100 years or so.

"It is this electromagnetic field bonding that creates the effect known as gravitational attraction."

Well I can sort of see this. If M1 has a mass of 1 and M2 has a mass of 2, and they are bonded via an electrical attraction, there combined mass would have a greater gravitational effect then if unbounded, but I don't see the causality- but I haven't studied the Hutchinson effect... maybe for tonights reading.

"It would seem possible that if a person could find a way to collect the frequency energy being produced by mass then transmit the gravitational energy, we would have an unlimited supply of energy potential to draw form."

Any particle that has mass has a gravitational force. If we  interpret the Heisenberg uncertainty principle literately, then the gravitational effect of an object changes as we observe it's velocity. If we can harness a very small amount of matter's gravitational energy, and manipulate its position via observation, then we can create energy via differing wave positions. Peek-a-boo energy.

"However, if resonance effect is not controlled the result would be a catastrophic breakdown of sub atomic and molecular cohesion starting a cascade chain reaction effect."

Hail Eris!

"What do we need with all of this energy anyway?"

I love my iphone.

But for real, we are in a fight against thermodynamics. Life seems to oppose disorder as much as it can. If we're on a fight for life, then were on a fight for energy. Living requires consumption of energy, and that is not a bad thing at all.









 

There was an interesting artical in Discover magazine about what happens to time at the very smallest intervals:

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/in-no-time

I would have titled the article "Zeno's Ghost"... I guess that's why I don't work in publishing.

Also an article about some recent empirical evidence confirming General Theory of Relativity:

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jul/einstein-was-right

"Nearly three years ago, NASA’s oft-canceled $750 million Gravity Probe B Relativity Mission finally shot into space with one goal—to quantify Einstein’s predictions from Earth’s orbit. Earlier this year, at the meeting of the American Physics Society, principal investigator Francis Everitt delivered the first results: Gravity Probe B has verified Einstein’s theory to within 1 percent."

Eureka!

I really tried to stay out of this one... but I just can't help myself... this one's just so far out there.

I think the OP was asking if a boat would be considered an antigravity device.

I think Mr. Schmidt's point is that gravity is still a phenomenon that's not completely understood and that we should try to get a good theory of gravity worked out before we start thinking too much about anti-gravity (correct me if I've misinterpreted). I'm not sure what he's getting at with the WTC example, other then that if the mass of WTC was converted into pure energy it would be a (much) greater force then the free fall collapse of the building.

FD gives us the text book definition of gravity from physic's 101. I haven't had time to look it up, but I remember that there were four fundamental forces: the strong and weak nuclear forces, the electro-magnetic force and gravitational attraction. I also remember that folks have had a lot of trouble getting electromagnetic theory to agree with gravitational theory- this leads me to think that the reason masses pull on each other is not electromagnetic energy (I don't have an explicit proof of this, just a hunch). I'm also fairly sure that motion is not the cause of gravity. Just looking at the Universal Law of Gravity there is no reference to change in position. I can picture two stationary (unmoving) partials that would still have an attractive force. The centripetal force of a rotating object is not the same as gravitational attraction. (If you spit your gum out while riding on the spinning ride at the amusement park it’s not gravity that causes it to fly back at your face).

Here's the way I picture gravity in my mind: I think of a piece of graph paper. I draw a strait line from point A to point B. Any partial traveling from A to B will travel in a straight line, unless acted upon by an outside force. I then take the piece of graph paper and wrap it around a basketball.  The strait line, AB is now a curved line. Gravity is like the basket ball and the piece of paper is like space. The gravitational force is not ‘pulling’ the partial- the particle is traveling through a straight line though bent space-time. In this scenario masses don’t exert forces on each other per se; they just bent the space-time surrounding each other. This is my armchair understanding of the General Theory of Relativity.

SOOOO…. If gravity is the bending in space-time caused by mass that would make antigravity a striating of space-time! The only thing I could think of that would cause such a straitening would be antimass. (Not to be confused with antimatter that has mass). This leads me to believe that if your boat has mass then it’s not an antigravity device. If your boat is made of antimass then perhaps it would be.

Although I don’t think they have a forum I’ve enjoyed reading from “How Stuff Works”

http://science.howstuffworks.com/

It's been hard to find full coverage of what's been going on with the changes. Do you know of any organizations in California that are lobbying on behalf of solar electricity producers?

I just checked out this site:

http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/

I've also heard that utilities can now charge customers with grid tie an administrative fee every month for having a bi-directional meter. I've also heard that customers can install there own meter to avoid this fee. I would like to be able to offer a meter to my clients in California, but I'm still looking into the regulations and looking for the correct meter to offer. If anyone has there own meter that has been approved by their utility company please let me know.   
 

I have heard that there have been major changes to the state rebate program in California and that the rebates are now performance based and are regulated by the utility companies. Since I’m over on the East Coast I’ve had some trouble sorting out the gossip from the facts. If you are a home owner planning an installation in California how is this effecting your decision to install a grid tie PV system? If you are an installer in California how is this affecting your business?

I’ve also heard that current grid tie installations are being effected by utility rate changes. If you have a grid tie system currently installed have you been effected by the change in legislation?

I’ve heard a lot of people are unhappy with the recent changes. What do you think of the changes? If you are unhappy about the changes are there any political action groups that are working on changing the legislation?

Based on what I understand there is a $2000 federal tax credit that can be applied when filing your federal income taxes for solar electric and hot waters systems that are placed in use within the given year. This credit was that it was due to expire at the end of 2007, but was renewed for another year. It’s now set to expirer again at the end of 2008. Have you personally be able to use this tax credit? Have you run into any problems trying to claim this tax credit? What can we do to extent the tax credit indefinitely?

I have not seen a whole lot of coverage from the major media outlets regarding net metering changes and rebate programs in general. If you come across an article or website please start a new forum post so people can read and discuss what you’ve found.

Here are some links to start off with:

Dsire:
http://www.dsireusa.org/
One of the best database’s for rebate info

UCS:
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_energy/
Some good info on federal and state legislation regarding RE

Renewable Energy Access
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/
Up to date news stories but I find it a bit challenging to try and research older articles

Go Solar Califonia!
http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/
Info on California rebate program

Renewable Energy Trust
http://www.masstech.org/renewableenergy/index.html
Massachusetts Rebate Program

After a number of conversations that I’ve had with home owners, installers and resellers regarding rebate programs and net metering laws I thought it would be a good idea to create a forum area for us to discuss our experiences with these programs. I am not an expert on this subject but I am very interested in learning more about people’s experiences in various locations.

One of the best places to start researching rebate programs, incentives and net metering regulations is the Dsire website (www.dsireusa.org). This site has a great overview of the state and federal programs and regulations. The Dsire website “provides a fast and convenient method for accessing information about renewable energy and energy efficiency incentives and regulatory policies administered by federal and state agencies, utilities, and local organizations.” If you haven’t already checked it out I would recommend you start your investigation there and after you get the basics down come back and post questions.

If you’ve been though the process please share with others your experiences! A lot of states still don’t have great rebate programs or laws that require utility companies to buy back power (or even give you a credit for the power you produce). If you are from a state that does not have renewable energy incentives in place use this forum to discuss with others how you can work with your legislators to create programs that encourage RE in your state. If you’ve participated in a campaign to change your state’s laws what experiences can you share with others?

I’ve seeded this forum with a few topics. Feel free to comment on these subjects or start your own posts! I am certainly hoping to learn more about the state and federal rebate process and the different net metering regulations.

Hi John,

I'm excited! james here at AES lent me his copy of "Who Killed the Electric Car". At first I protested watching the movie- I thought it was sort of like preaching to the choir, but I now that I have seen it am glad I spent the time to watch it. I got a lot more out of http://www.pluginamerica.com/ then I did the movie. 

As for the Zap, I'll believe it when I see it- but energy is energy. Even if it can charge in 10 minutes they haven't said anything about the kWh it's gonna take to make that charge (at least that I've seen). I would really love to see  some advancements in battery technology- I think storage is almost more of a problem then generation in RE right now.

There is the old argument/joke about when Southern California switches to all plug in cars and all of LA blacks out- generation is still the issue that has yet to be worked out when it comes to plug-in's. You can burn gas in downtown LA or in coal in Oxnard- you still haven't escaped the larger issues carbon emission and resource economics.

Charging your car on your own solar power is the way to go imo. I remember reading an article last summer in Home Power about some people that were charging there EV off solar. I forget the issue but I'll post it here when I get into work tomorrow. I also helped a client design a PV car port for charging the GEM electrical vechials. All in all I think it's the way to go.

As for Dane, I don't know what the state taxes are for EV's. If anyone does know please share. Are the taxes on propane cars a local tax or federal? What's great about the United States government, federal and local, is that it's dynamic. If we don't like the taxes that are being imposed on us we don't have to toss a bunch of tea in the ocean- we can organize and lobby and tell our representatives that they're not going to be elected unless they get rid of that tax.

If I were putting a grid tie system on my house I would go with the new line of Evergreen panels and a Fronius inverter.

There are LOTS of great solar panels available, but I like Evergreen for a few reasons. The Evergreen panels have less wasted silicon in there production, which allows them to make  more solar panels with their materials. Evergreen writes on their website (http://www.evergreensolar.com), "This advantage in material efficiency means String Ribbon yields over twice as many solar cells per pound of silicon as conventional methods". From an environmentalist prospective, the manufacturing of the Evergreen panels has one of the fastest energy payback times (as fast as 18 months), has a low carbon dioxide emission and lead free solder. From an economic prospective, the Evergreens tend to be less expensive per watt then other panels (since there is less Si in the manufacturing) and are backed by a a 25 year limited power warranty. Lastly, the new Spruce line are high wattage and high voltage which works well in a grid tie application.

As for an inverter; like panels there are lots of great choices. My first pick would be a Fronius. There grid tie inverters come with built in AC and DC disconnects (while NEC complaint you should still check with the local power company and code inspector. The Fronius website states: (http://www3.fronius.com) "Although most inverters with integrated disconnects are approved as meeting all codes and standards, the final word on compliance is up to the local authority having jurisdiction".) I think the Fronius inverters are very cool because of all the optional gadgets you can add into the system using the DatCom system. You can monitor your systems performance from a PC and even over the internet. You can also add in a bunch of data collection devices to capture information like array temperature, wind speed and solar radiance to see how your system preforms in different weather conditions.

So those are my two picks. I have talked to lots of people who are very happy with different types of systems and so long as you choose name brands you should be fine. I would take some time to read over the info we have on our site about the different units and also take a look at the manufactures web pages. Reading over the inverter installation manual before you buy is a must if you are doing the installation and very informative if you are not. The manuals tend to be surprisingly full of information about solar systems in general, and not simply on the operation of the individual unit.

Depending on your location, you could get a grid tie system with either 13 or 14 Evergreen ES190 units and a Fronius IG3000 inverter. Feel free to give us a call and we can help you with string sizing and mounting.

It’s true that the amount of equipment you would need to produce 1400kWh’s a month is very site specific, yet I’m not convinced that a fossil fuel powered generator would necessary be a better solution. Many of our customers choose renewable energy as a life style choice and have ethical and moral reasons for choosing solar electric power for their homes. Other customers live in areas where fossil fuels are difficult to acquire because they are in a remote location or the price of fuel is cost probative (according to CNN Money Report the cost of a gallon of gasoline in Europe is over $6.00). There are also clients who enjoy the security associated with producing there own power and are supportive of domestic energy. Other people live in areas where the government offers state incentives and rebates that can considerably offset the startup costs associated with a renewable energy system.

No matter what the reasons are for choosing a renewable energy generator over a fuel dependent generator it is certainly true that reducing consumption and conserving electricity are great first steps to reducing the up front costs associated with such systems. Energy conservation can be as simple as using compact florescent lights and energy efficient appliances and in general becoming a conscience electricity consumer. When investing in a renewable energy system you are in essence ‘prepaying’ for your electricity for the next twenty or so years; therefore even very small reductions in consumption on a daily basis will have rippling effects on your initial start up costs and long term needs.

Tom is correct in saying engineering evaluation is in order before making such a purchase. There are very few ‘cookie cutter’, out of the box renewable energy packages available, especially when talking about this scale of energy production. What Joe needs, in my option, is a custom, tailored system to meet his individual needs. Either one of my colleagues or I at the Alternative Energy Store would be happy to help in selecting components for a system of this nature.

Hello Joe,

I have an idea of some components that might work for you. Please contact me directly via phone or email and I'll get a quote off to you with components that will meet your needs.

One idea would be to wire the batteries in parallel so that your battery bank is at 12v. That way you could charge the array with an Air X wind generator. Also most lights and appliances that are DC are 12v. Feel free to give me a call and we can work on a solution to meet your individual needs.
 

I would definitely not mount a wind generator on the roof of your home. The first reason is that you want to avoid turbulence near the generator. "As a general rule of thumb, you should install a wind turbine on a tower such that it is at least 30 ft above any obstacles within 300 ft." The second reason is that the vibrations from the generator can be unpleasant and maybe even damage your home. Michael Bergey, of the Bergey Windpower Company writes "We do not recommend mounting wind turbines to small buildings that people live in because of the inherent problems of turbulence, noise, and vibration." You can read his whole article on small wind turbines here: http://howto.altenergystore.com/The-Basics/Small-Wind-Turbines-Primer/a28/

Might want to check out "The Passive Solar House Using Solar Design to Heat & Cool Your Home" by James Kachadorian. http://store.altenergystore.com/Books-Videos/Solar/PASSIVE-SOLAR-HOUSE-JAMES-KACHADORIAN/p33/