Two Battery Banks?

13 Posts
Jan 16, 2007 05:25 pm
Two Battery Banks?

Been running into a brick wall with this persuit. My system is 12v. My hydro puts out 20 amps. I'd like to have two battery banks, one for the house, one for the shop, on seperate invertors. My plan was to use 2 C35s, the first diverting the exess current from the house batteries (2 L16s that I'd like kept well charged)to the second bank (4 L16s for the shop),the second C35 from that bank to a div. load . No can do. Amp draw of 2nd battery bank would be too high for proper charge control (so I've been told). A RV type isolator has its problems in this application as well. Is there a way I could limit the draw from the second bank of batteries to less than 30 amps, and still get good current to them? Any other ideas?
Thanks.
 
1 Posts
Jan 19, 2007 08:49 pm
Re: Two Battery Banks?

First of all, is the 20 amp of hydro all you have for charging?    Why is the 20 amps too much for the second C-35 to handle... I may be missing something.  It seems to me that if you have to much current going to the second C-35, couldn't you divert a partial load as to minimize current to the second charge controller?

Also, are you saying that after your first battery bank is in its absorption stage, the rest is of the current is diverted to the second battery bank? If your total maximum charge current is only 20 amps, wouldn't the diverted current be less than 20 amps? 

Instead of making a series diversion string, couldn't you put the two charge controllers in parallel with the charging source; each with it's own diversion load, and charging it's own battery bank?
Jeff Patrick
patrickjwvc6 @ yahoo.com
« Last Edit: Jan 19, 2007 08:55 pm by Jeffrey Patrick »
 
13 Posts
Jan 20, 2007 03:03 pm
Re: Two Battery Banks?

Hi, I also have a 70w solar panel, miller welder/generator, both invertors are chargers.Problem is that you cant use a 2nd battery bank as a diversion load, it will draw to much current, messes up the controller.
I'm getting it figured out. Like you suggest, I will have two systems.Hydro/solar to a battery isolator (FET type, not diode type, almost no voltage drop), charging both banks. I'll put a solenoid in the leg to the shop bank, activated by the house diversion load out. That way the shop bank will only charge after the house bank is in absorbtion, or float mode.
I looked at the balmar Duo-charge, and the Xantrex echo-charge, but like my circuit better, as it allows both systems to go through complete charging cycles, with the house set prioritized.
Russell
 
462 Posts
Jan 26, 2007 01:04 pm
Re: Two Battery Banks?

Russell, why not move all the batteries into the shop and run AC out to the house. Then you could set up the diversion load to some type of heating or lighting for the shop.
 
13 Posts
Jan 27, 2007 12:28 am
Re: Two Battery Banks?

Yep, thats how its set up now. The hydro is 10' from one corner of the shop, one panel on the roof (38'x42'shop, good solar on the SE pitch of the roof, READY FOR MORE PANELS!-in the plan).The batteries and power center are all in that corner. 
I'm getting the two bank thing figured out. Lots of info about it for sailing/boating folks, but it mostly pertains to keeping an engine starting battery charged as a 2nd battery bank.
Just picked up one of those little kubota DC gensets for a good price- havent plugged it in yet, but if the specs of 140amps at a pint of diesel an hour are true I'll be happy Smiley
My RE energy income is more than sufficient for the house, and for 60-70% of what I do in the shop. The house use is fairly consistant, but the shop power draws vary a lot,and sometimes infringes on house power.I think it will be easier to manage my power usage by seperating these very different situations.
Any ideas about slaving a silenoid off of the diversion load circuit of a charge controller? Problem with an automotive type is that the coil would have to be activated at <4vdc, yet withstand up to 15vdc continuous duty.Maybe another type of relay?
Thanks, Russell
 
462 Posts
Jan 29, 2007 04:52 pm
Re: Two Battery Banks?

Russell, even if you switch the power from the diversion load to charge a second set of batteries, you still may have a problem if the second set is already charged. Where will the excess power go? That is what the diversion load is supposed to do, take up the extra power being generated so as to not destroy the components in the system. It shouldn't matter if the batteries are all together or separate, you are still drawing the same amount of power overall with whatever is being used. Why deplete on bank while another is charged? That would be like having two electric meters on your house. Either way you bill is the same, or maybe more expensive paying delivery cost on both. Synonomous with ruining one set of batteries and having to replace them instead of using up all the batteries equally.
 
13 Posts
Jan 29, 2007 05:27 pm
Re: Two Battery Banks?

Hi Tom, each bank has a charge control, and a diversion load. If I deplete the shop bank (not to the point of damage of course) I have power in the house and by the time I'm in the shop next they will be charged again. When I'm in the shop late and draw down the whole bank, it takes a while to charge back up. Also has to do with the reliability of the hydro. I'm 2nd in line on a long pipeline thats from my neighbors place. I have water rights to it, but it's a long story, kindof like having 2nd rights on an irrigation ditch that usually runs, but sometimes not.
Russell
 
462 Posts
Jan 30, 2007 12:45 pm
Re: Two Battery Banks?

Possibly you could install some type of relay off the diversion switch on the one controller so that when the batteries are full, it swithches to a diversion load as it normally should, but make the diversion load either the other set of batteries or your normal diversion load. Power the relay from your secondary battery bank. If voltage is down diversion goes to the batteries. Once voltage is up, relay switches over to your normal diversion load. You may have to install some type of priority switch to change between which set of batteries are to be the diversion load.
« Last Edit: Jan 30, 2007 03:52 pm by Tom Mayrand »
 
13 Posts
Jan 30, 2007 04:55 pm
Re: Two Battery Banks?

Thats where I'm at. Hydro/solar to a FET battery isolator,to basically two stand alone systems. My idea of prioritizing the house bank entails running a on/off relay set in the shop side of the isolator, activated by the charge control for the house batteries. It will only close when the house batteries are in absorption,or float mode.
Now, what kind of relay? A continuous duty solenoid doesn't activate till it gets to >8 volts. I checked the voltage on the controller as it began divertion, and the voltage slowly comes up as it diverts more current.
I'd like to find a relay that will activate at <4volts, yet withstand 15volts, and will pass up to 35-40 amps.
power-io.com has one that looks interesting, but $60 is kind of pricey for a simple relay (?).
I might try the setup without it and see what happens, maybe try an automotive relay to see if that works.
Russell
 
462 Posts
Feb 1, 2007 04:02 pm
Re: Two Battery Banks?

Russell, did a search for low battery voltage switches/alarms. A lot of homemade remedies out there along with expensive ones. Here is one link;

http://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/FK915

Make your own I guess. Then hook up the unit on the opposite side of the incoming charging end of your now diversion load battery bank. Then hook up the alarm or LED connection on the unit to a suitable relay with the proper ratings for your 30 amps. Or use multiple relays to divide the current.
 So basically when battery voltage is low, it sends power to the relay (former LED or alarm). The relay contacts NO/NC are wired to the second set of div. load batteries and the regular diversion load. The common positive feed on the relay is attached to the diversion load connection on your controller. So once your first set of batteries are charged, the controller switches to the diversion load. If the diversion load batteries are full then the relay will be switched to NO which is connected to the original diversion load.
« Last Edit: Feb 1, 2007 05:31 pm by Tom Mayrand »
 
13 Posts
Feb 1, 2007 06:00 pm
Re: Two Battery Banks?

Hmmm, I'm thinking that the 1st charge controller will work as the battery monitor for the first battery set. When the house batteries fall below the float voltage setting, there is no current out at the diversion load terminals, = relay (between isolator and 2nd batts) is open (off). All the current from the hydro flows to the house batteries until it goes to absorption mode, and begins diverting current, closing the relay, and allowing current to flow to the second set, till it is charged, then both charge controllers would be in diversion mode until the house batteries are low again.
The idea is to let the 1st charge controller complete its bulk charging cycle on the house batteries before diverting current.
Each charge controllers have 300 watt diversion loads, the relay would be pigtailed to the load so it doesn't receive all the current from that controller.
 
13 Posts
Feb 18, 2007 12:17 am
Re: Two Battery Banks?

Update, if anyone is interested... running a relay off of the 1st charge controller didn't work out. What I am doing is setting the first controller in solar control mode, the second in diversion mode. I found that when either controller in div. mode is diverting, the electrons(?) would much rather head for the diversion load than go into a battery (path of least resistance).
To prioritise the first bank I put a diode (actually two) in the leg from the isolator(I'm impressed with this ARGO FET isolator, no voltage drop, good price)to the second bank to reduce its apparent voltage, therefor the first bank charges up till it shuts off,the voltage at the input rises, and the excess current flows to the second bank, while keeping the banks isolated.
I am taking a loss to the second bank with the diodes, but since I'm maintaining the first bank, dumping excess into the second, and finally dumping to the div. load the second bank seems to be charging OK.
Still in the test phase, we'll see what happens before I invest more.
Russell
 

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