HELP HELP HELP :)

5 Posts
Dec 6, 2006 03:53 pm
HELP HELP HELP :)

Hey All..Ok please don't bash me as i have read and re-read millions of articles on this stuff and its making me nuts/dizzy.  I have so much information now that I am totally confused.  This is what I am wanting to do.  I have a old farm house that i wish to convert to solar, completely off grid and its basically just a hang out for a few hours a night and 1/2 days on weekends.  Ok the roof area that I wish to install a solar panel is in full sun all day.  from sun up to sun down.  I also just bought point eight( .Cool watt LED light bulbs.  I have 2 as of now but plan to get like 4 more.  The only major appliance I run there is a standard refrigerator.  I don't have the exact specs. on it now but will provide.  All I wish to do is: is to use these lights at night only and run the fridge on low setting ( just enough to keep beer and soda cold )  Now I have tried many different calculators in trying to figure out what exactly I need and not to over spend.  I don't mind paying like 200.00 for a solar panel and like 50-60 per battery.  I have right now a 12volt converter and I know I need sometype of charge switch.  I also know that I can but a converter thing to perhaps run a clothes dryer - but so not needed.  I would also like to run a small pool pump in the summer time and maybe a small electric grill.  Now I do understand the wattage thing, however at this point I'm not sure what I need.  I would appreciate any suggestions.  Also I live in South Illinois and I understand the battery is the heaviest to be shipped so i would assume buying a deep cycle battery close to home would be more cost effective.  Also the prices I have listed are just guide lines and I would go up to about 500.00 if needed.  Thanx for all your time.  Also if anyone is online and can talk to me directly my yahoo ID is michael_oshman  and my email is michael_oshman @ yahoo.com
 
351 Posts
Dec 6, 2006 07:00 pm
Re: HELP HELP HELP :)

Michael:

You need to get some hard numbers on the fridge and how many hours a day it runs. It will drive your system size. I would actually recommend that you get a kill-a-watt meter (about $30) and plug the fridge into it, so you can get a real good number on what it uses at this time of year.

If your desire is to have it plugged in 24/7/365 and be able to power it plus the lights in Dec/Jan, I believe this system is bigger than you think.

"I would go up to about 500.00 if needed."

You are probably looking at something closer to 10 times that amount, and possibly more, depending on the numbers.

Ken
« Last Edit: Dec 6, 2006 07:03 pm by ken hall »
 
5 Posts
Dec 6, 2006 07:42 pm
Re: HELP HELP HELP :)

ok kool..I belive I found a great site that will help me further I think.  My thinking is to now find a small cube fridge and that alone will reduce the amount by alot.  I found this link: http://www.solarkits.com/gettingstartedcabins.htm

and I now see a better understanding of what I want, need and really need.  I believe this type of kit:, the first one is what I need:  http://www.solarkits.com/product3.htm

of course I would like to go cheaper so anymore advice is more then welcome
 
163 Posts
Dec 6, 2006 11:21 pm
Re: HELP HELP HELP :)

Michael,

You're probably not going to like this, but you need to go back and read some more. Decide (ie measure) how much power you need, and then decide if you need/want a sine wave inverter or if a modified sine wave will do, and then how much (battery) storage you want.

I spent six months reading and researching before I placed an order with the Alternative Energy Store. Having a badly broken leg that had me in a chair for the last three months with leg elevated and unable to work probably helped a lot during that period.

I started correspondence with about one dozen companies and slowly eliminated most of them because of high prices or low knowledge. I corresponded with the solarkits.com company that you gave the link to. They seem to have several companies that operate under the partsonsale.com umbrella. In the end they were only able to offer to beat anybody's price on Mitsubishi modules. If you scroll down that link that you gave you will come across "New for 2005" which does not give me a lot of faith that they can deliver anything at the advertised price. In fact most of their other sites like to use "Prices too low to list - call for details".

Here are a few other sites that you can look at if you're just looking for the lowest possible price:
http://www.scsolar.com/index.html
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/index.html
http://solar4me.com/
http://www.directpower.com/index.html
http://www.discountpv.com/allitems
http://www.alphasolar.com/
http://store.solar-electric.com/
http://www.affordable-solar.com/

Generally speaking, I found the people working in Arizona and New Mexico to be the most knowledgeable about what they were selling. In the end it came down to Affordable Solar and the Alternative Energy Store. Pricing was very close, but I wanted to purchase everything from a single supplier so I choose AES.
 
351 Posts
Dec 7, 2006 03:49 am
Re: HELP HELP HELP :)

Michael:

Don’t make the mistake of thinking small is energy efficient. Some of those 2 cu ft fridges are monster power draws for their size. You can often get an energy star rated fridge in the 14-18 cubic foot range that will run on the same power, sometimes even less.

John is right about doing more reading, you might try the “how to” tab at the top of the page. There are some good articles and some helpful calculators.

In your first post, you said that you want to convert to solar.  If you are currently on grid and using it similar to what you plan to in the future, knowing the KWH off of a recent months bill would help.

Ken
 
578 Posts
Dec 7, 2006 10:50 am
Re: HELP HELP HELP :)

wow guys,  i go home for the night and 4 responses.  I agree with ken, as usual, the fridge is likely a monster, and I would say to ditch it for a small solar starter system.

If you don't mind the expense $32 + shipping (prob 10) then get a kill-a-watt and measure the heck out of what you would like to run.

I fear that your budget will be insufficient to run the loads that you listed if you include the fridge.  If you have access to back issues of home power magazine, (library or online) I would suggest issue 93 page 86.  This is a great article on a starter system.

In response to John, also a great forum contributor, there are MANY competitors that can post lower prices.  Whether they have things in stock, and or answer the phone are usually a different story.  As far as New Mexico and Arizona companies knowing more, well, perhaps, but I think our staff here is fairly knowledgeable, and more importantly, we will tell you when we don't know.  Heck, I would rather be in New Mexico, the weather here in Mass is AWFUL, but it is the people that keep me here.  I/We remember our customer's names and have visited a few in person.  It's about RE and the RE community here, not just internet sales.  If it was not that way, you would not see - Alt-E staff after my name. 

anyway, good luck with the research, and call or email me if you want some more help.

james - Alt-E staff

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/

Tel: 877.878.4060 x107  or +1.978.562.5858 x107
Fax: 877.242.6718  or +1.978.562.5854
 
5 Posts
Dec 7, 2006 01:57 pm
Re: HELP HELP HELP :)

I will be ordering that cabin start kit in two weeks.  I will not use the fridge for now and basically run .8 watt light bulbs and add loads as I go to see exactly what I can run.  After i have everything set up and I can get everyting running I will add probally 1 more panel and 2-3 batteries.  At that time I will run a small cube fridge and either a small electric grill.  I'm not worried aboutthe lights at all now as I did a experiment yesterday morning and wired 4 (.Cool watt light bulbs into a power pack that i have now and it only used about 1/4 of the power in the pack.  The lights ran 24 hours.  So now I know I can easily run more lights in various rooms as I go and its only a 2 room house anyway.  Cabin like I would call it.    In the other small rooms I have huge 3 wick candles going so I;'m not worried about those.  I just need enough light to know the difference between a caned beer and caned coke Smiley  Also do keep in mind that these panels will be in sun, sun up to sun down.  ok here is my question. lets say I get that cabin kit, lets say I drain the battery down to 50%, how long does it take to take the battery to full capacity.  Week nights I would only use lights and thats for about 3 hours. weekends I would use the lights twice that time.  hope this helps ??
 
351 Posts
Dec 7, 2006 07:54 pm
Re: HELP HELP HELP :)

Michael:

You are about to make a $1500-$2000 mistake that we have been trying to warn you about.

That cabin kit you are looking at is really more suited to stick in a RV trailer.

I told you “You need to get some hard numbers on the fridge and how many hours a day it runs. It will drive your system size.”

John told you “Decide (ie measure) how much power you need, and then decide”

James told you “then get a kill-a-watt and measure the heck out of what you would like to run.”

We know that the loads and reserve factor drive your battery size. The 2 in combination, plus the solar insolation for your area,  drive the size and number of panels. It is harder to design a small system than a big one. A small mistake that would pass un-noticed in a large system, will kill a small one. There is just less room for errors. And we are already know the answers and are making allowances for things that you have not even thought about yet.

I would bet that if you ask James why AE doesn’t sell kits, he will give you an answer something like “kits really don’t work very well, each customer has different ideas and desires, we would rather customize the system for each of our customers needs and circumstances.”   

In about a year, you are going to crying that the controller you bought is noisy, doesn’t really seem to fill the batteries as rapidly as other controllers. That it doesn’t talk to other equipment that you want in the system, and you seem stuck at the 2 panel size. The system is not delivering more than 600 wattshours with the 2 panels at this time of year etc. (meaning you will only get about 300 watthours a day with one panel)
And possibly you will be complaining about the AGM battery , if that’s what you are thinking of buying.
The battery is not in the kit, nor is an inverter.

So, go right ahead and spend that $1500-2000 bucks, it’s your money.
Enjoy the period of euphoria that you will have right after you install it, because that happy feeling isn’t going to last very long.

Ken
 
163 Posts
Dec 7, 2006 08:33 pm
Re: HELP HELP HELP :)

lol Ken,

Don't be too hard on him. And I'm sure James will sell him a package system if he really wants it, as they do carry those Sunwize package deals.

But if he can figure out why is it that one 256 watt system costs $3676.86, while for only $15 more he could get a 460 watt system, then he will be well on his way to understanding.
http://store.altenergystore.com/Kits-and-Package-Deals/Off-Grid-Systems-Cabin-Systems/c466/
 
351 Posts
Dec 7, 2006 09:52 pm
Re: HELP HELP HELP :)

John

Actually, I am trying to get his attention and get him to slow down. He's jumping around like a cat on a hot tin roof.

The other approach he can take is go minimal, 12v lights only, and possibly a small inverter load in the summer when he has more power availible. (An inverter that can be disconnected so there is no parasite load when not needed.)

Realize that the system will not be expandible. Use it as a learning experiance. Make the mistakes on a small cheap system.

Then come expansion time, make the decision whether to transfer the lighting loads onto the new system and sell/toss the old, or keep it and have two systems.

Ken
 
5 Posts
Dec 8, 2006 01:28 pm
Re: HELP HELP HELP :)

consultationsh more research and 5 phone books later. I have found 2 companies semi-local that will come out and give me consulations.  You right, the kit i need would be sized for a RV.  I don't think I made myself clear on the size of the area that I need to light..ect..I have also looked into propane fridge and other RV related stuff that more suits my needs.  But I will post the results as soon as I have everything on paper and then you guys can guide me from there.  I think at the most this will cost me around 900.00, which I don't mind since they just took off the freeze of the electric companies here.  I am now on a budget plan here at home at 266 a month and they plan to increase that to 50%.  So as it stands now there is no power at all at the farm so any improvement involving solar would be beneficial.  and it would pay for it self in 3 months time.  But I will keep ya's posted.
 
163 Posts
Dec 8, 2006 02:26 pm
Re: HELP HELP HELP :)

But I will post the results as soon as I have everything on paper and then you guys can guide me from there.  I think at the most this will cost me around 900.00,

If you can get something going for 900 bucks I think we will all be seeking guidance from you. Good luck.
 
5 Posts
Dec 8, 2006 02:34 pm
Re: HELP HELP HELP :)

ok just got off the phone with a consultation guy.  He said for what I need and the size pool pump i would use in summer I can get a system for about 400.00.  Now he said if I was to use a fridge, then double that.  If we do all the install ourselves, just leaving electric connections for him he would knock off 100.00.  So sunday I am going to his house to see a few models in action, then he wants fridge info and pool filter info, hes not concerned about the lights since we only use 4 at 1/8 watt.  I will let ya's know how it went and what i have decided to go with.
 

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