The Strive to be independant

2 Posts
Jul 10, 2006 04:12 pm
The Strive to be independant

Okay so after watching the Al Gore movie, I've decided that I 'm going to build an environmentally friendly house.  I've gone through the forums and I've looked online, but I also want the opinion of the people on this site.  First off, my estimated kWh... Here's the thing, the house that I'm building is about 2x my current house. BUT! I'll be using ICF walls w/ a geothermal heat exchanger and radiant floors.  So, for heating (if the earth cools off and stops spinning) I'll still be able to heat my house with a candle and cool it off with an ice cube. The Beginner’s Guide said that the average US house uses 500 kWh?! My highest kWh for the last 3 years is 147 kWh.  The only gas appliances that I have are the water heater and the forced air unit.  So, given all that I would think that 200kWh would be sufficient. (Please poke as many flaws in my thinking as possible, I enjoy creative criticism.)  So!  Now for the equipment:

Land:
The lot that I bought is good desert land, it's always sunny at least 3 hours a day and if it's not sunny, the wind is at  9-24 mph. There's a breeze almost all night.

Wind:
WHISPER 200 1kW 12-48v WIND TURBINE
This looks like a good product and w/ 1kW, would be sufficient to charge the batteries

Solar:
I-165-12, 165w, 12v Solar Panel Isofoton x10
(10)165W solar panels in parallel(?) to give me 1.6kW should also be sufficient but should this be in series vs parallel? (I'm a software guy, hardware isn't where I excel. Parallel is connecting (+) to (+) and Series is (+) to (-)? Am I also right in that parallel increases volts while series increases amps?)

Batteries:
8A4D AGM 200 AMP HOUR (20HR) SEALED BATT x12
12V x 200 A-H
I would like about 6 days of uninterrupted power while still only using about 50% of my battery juice.  I used the calculator online and it told me I needed 12.  How exactly is this calculated? I plan on connecting these in (2) rows to give me 24V and 1600 A-H. (is that right?)

Controller:
I can't find one.  I looked at the Controller that the Whisper 500 (EZ WIRE Controller) and that looked promising.  It controls the PV and the Wind and the Batteries.  I like that, sounds extremely simple.  Any suggestions?

Here's where I get a little confused.  So the batteries, the wind turbine and the PV all connect to the controller.  There controller then has a load connection and that's where I hook the "house" up to? If that's the case, then I'll be getting 24VDC from that connection? So do I need a AC converter to get it up to 120VAC and 240VAC? (I have (2) 240VAC appliances so if I could connect the mass of the house into 120VAC and only have a little of the battery "juice" hit the 240VAC that would be excellent) Then if I get the electricity from the AC converter do I just hook it up directly to the house breaker box and then treat it just like grid power?

ANY help/suggestions/reality smacks are definitely appreciated.
 
2 Posts
Jul 10, 2006 04:15 pm
Re: The Strive to be independant

Something I remembered AFTER I posted.  Are there any books out there that can kind of walk me though how to install/specify everything I need?  Or maybe a directory of paid consultants that could help me out?  The closest person that I could find out here (Northern Nevada) is over 200mi away.
 
578 Posts
Jul 12, 2006 12:14 pm
Re: The Strive to be independant

Okay, you wrote a lot, so I will try to answer in stages with input for you.  First, that is good that you have past bills to work on to anticipate your loads, but always estimate high.  The average caller we find is usuall between 800kwh and 1500 kwh per month!  If you have not had a geothermal system before, you must consider the effects of the usually large pump on your electrical usage.  this surprises many people.  in some cases, it may be beneficial to live in the place for a year to get good data before investing in RE.  In other cases if the whole place is going to be under construction, it makes sense to do all of the installs at once.  Just things to consider. 

- james

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/

Tel: 877.878.4060 x107  or +1.978.562.5858 x107
Fax: 877.242.6718  or +1.978.562.5854
 
578 Posts
Jul 13, 2006 03:28 pm
Re: The Strive to be independant


Regarding the land and the wind:

You need to find your average annual windspeed.  This can be done a few ways.  Consult charts we have on our website or other simiar resources such as southwest windpower, national renewable energy laboratories (nrel) etc.  You said you had wind between 9 and 24 miles per hour.  that is like saying I drive between 5 and 300 mph on the freeway!  the gap of available energy in that span is gigantic.  You can also try to get in touch with local weather stations, airports, or universities, to find wind data. 

The voltage of your system may also determine your turbine choice.  that being said, the height of your tower needs to be 30 ft above the tallest object within 100 yards in most cases.  If this pushes your turbine farther from the house, this may require you to reconsider system voltage to avoid a  long low voltage wire run, which would be very costly.  Turbine selection will also depend on good load data or estimates.  The whisper 200 you mentioned will provide roughly 200kwh at 12mph average windspeeds.  Other turbines do not use such nomenclature, so finding average monthly production requires further digging, but you can usually find it on spec pages or pdf documents on our site.

- james -- Alt-E staff

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/

Tel: 877.878.4060 x107  or +1.978.562.5858 x107
Fax: 877.242.6718  or +1.978.562.5854
 
Jul 15, 2006 05:57 am
Re: The Strive to be independant



ANY help/suggestions/reality smacks are definitely appreciated.
[/quote]
 
Considering just how many clam shells your getting ready to forkover - a $100.00 investment in a 10 CD-Rom set of almost 2 decades of Homepower magazine would, to me, be more than worthwhile. All of the questions you have asked, have been answered in one issue or another in the pages of Homepower magazine with; full color photos, schematics, lessons learned, product comparisons, real world tests, testimony from experts, I cant say enough about the value of Homepower for a homeowner wanting to take the plunge into renewable energies on a residential scale. Just in case you do not know that address is www.homepower.com 

By the way, who is Al Gore? Has he lived "offgrid" his whole life or something?
 
578 Posts
Jul 21, 2006 01:07 pm
Re: The Strive to be independant

okay, for the solar.

parallel is + to + and - to -.  Putting things in parallel is current additive.  that is current increases, voltage remains constant, power increases.

Series is + to -.  Putting things in series is volttage additive.  Voltage increases, current reamains the same, power increases.

The way you orient the panels in series/parallel configuration depends on your system voltage and the type of charge controller you select.

 The way you go about sizing the system you need is based on the watt-hours you require. the only way you know what size array is sufficient for you is to do the calculations of what you need and then size the pv for about 125% of that to take into account inefficeincies.  You will be different since you will have wind contributing as well.  lastly the panels you have selected are known to be scarce and may not be available.  Isofoton makes good modules but you would be more likely to get your hands on the 150 24v variety here in the states.

the post berfore me is right, get your hands on home power magazine.  the solar cds are very helpful.  Also check out the books on the website, especially "photovoltaics design and install manual" it is very good and I keep a copy handy here at work.  please feel free to contact me with any questions.

-james -- Alt-E staff

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/

Tel: 877.878.4060 x107  or +1.978.562.5858 x107
Fax: 877.242.6718  or +1.978.562.5854
 
30 Posts
Aug 3, 2006 10:33 am
Re: The Strive to be independant

Hi Brian - what you have is a true engineering design problem involving assumptions, trade-offs, and cost-benefit analyses. The system architecture you mention is pretty complex. You noted a 'geothermal heat exchanger" - are you referring to a geothermal heat pump? We have used these systems and find that they are far more cost effective than burning propane for example.  However, they do use a considerable amount of electrical power while running, and the overall system will have to be able to handle that (for example a Geosource 2000 water-water heatpump running in heating mode with 50 degree water in and 100 degree water out will require about 9 amps at 220V; that's going to require a sizable inverter [2.5KW] just by itself). One thing that came to mind was the need for windpower if you have so much sunlight. Although small wind turbines are not too expensive, the required infrastructure costs might be better spent on additional solar and/or storage components. Feel free to contact me here or directly if you wish.

Tom Hardy, PE
HVTA, Inc.
Allenstown, NH 03275
Ph. 603/268-0595
email: tomvanguard1 @ comcast.net


 

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