splitting power

9 Posts

Oct 15, 2004 12:18 am

i would like to know if you can run an inverter to two legs of your elect.panel to form 220.also my aims converter has 4 1500w outlets, can you double up on the outlets to form 3k watts. the manuel mentions nothing to this effect.

Thomas Allen Schmidt

679 Posts

Oct 16, 2004 10:55 am

Re: splitting power

>i would like to know if you
>can run an inverter to two
>legs of your elect.panel to form
>220.
Where you wrote "an inverter" I take that to be 1-inverter, if correct then the answer is no. The electricity brought into your home from the electric utilities is called 120/240 vac single phase @ 60 Hz. This simply means that there is 2 "legs" of 120 vac @ 60 Hz out of phase with each other. In order to make 120/240 vac single phase @ 60 Hz. with inverters there must be two inverters and one must be the master the other a slave. Unless of course they are made together as one unit, but the princple is the same, there must be two "legs" of 120 vac out of phase. Oh! and there must not be any multi-wire branch circuits (two circuits sharing the same neutral) leaving your breaker panel.

also my aims converter has 4
>1500w outlets, can you double up
>on the outlets to form 3k
>watts. the manuel mentions nothing to
>this effect.

More than likley not. If you could see the back side of the outlets you might see that they are all wired together on one circuit, even though they might have different mini breakers. I am going to research Aimes inverters learn more about them.

Thomas Allen Schmidt

679 Posts

Oct 16, 2004 03:08 pm

Re: splitting power

I found very little technical informatin about it. I was hopeing for more. All of the info I found said only 120 vac. There was something about getting full power from one outlet, one must use larger vdc cables. To me that sounds crazy. If I were to size a cable or cables for any inverter, I would divide the continuous wattage by the lowest vdc input voltage. In this case that would 500 amps which I would use nothing less than parallel 4/0 cu. wire. What did they sell with it? Parallel 2/0? Not to mention the vac output of over 40 amps from one outlet. But this doesnt help you any does it?
If I had one of these inverters, just out of curiosity I would use a multimeter and with one probe in the hot side of one outlet I would check for voltage to the same side of each of the other three outlets. Its probably not there though because this would be something they most likely would advertise.
I read where it has phase correction. I am drawing a blank on that one. If there is no other inverter to be the slave then what is there to be corrected? Its ok, you dont have to answer that.
The Aims web site is as informative as any of its resellers ads. Its probably a good inverter, but if you plan on loading up to full rated wattage, keep an eye on those cables. If you havent already it would be best to give yourself a quick disconect on that vdc inverter input circuit with fuses to protect the wire. 500 amps is a lot, even at 12 vdc. One could weld 1/4 steel plate together with that. A lot of 4x4 offroaders have used less amperage at 24 vdc to make emergency repairs on broken axles and such.

Robert Critchley

9 Posts

Oct 17, 2004 02:21 am

Re: splitting power

thanks for responding. first the hookup on the back of this power plant is in my sense wierd. there are two sets of connects in the back. if you use one set of them you only get 2500 watts and if you hook up to both sets in the back you get the 5k range. as for the wires, they furnished heavy duty welding cables with this inverter. regardless of the hookup in the back all 4 outlet recepticles in the front of this inverter give out power. but the warning reads for 1500 watts per recepticle and that was the basis of my reserch

Robert Critchley

9 Posts

Oct 17, 2004 02:39 am

Re: splitting power

hi. i was kindof thinking the same and since i'm new to these systemes i had to ask. juring the hurricanes i was impressed with what i had and now want to expand the system to include solar pannels and a good charge controler and mount it akk on a trailer so that i can be mobile. my power company blew me off when i inquired for any incentives, regardless if it was just for home inprovement.i will buy a second inverter to form my 220 as you suggested as a slave. i do have a welder a compressor and my water pump that run on 220, the rest of the house runs on 110.

Tom M

462 Posts

Oct 17, 2004 04:08 pm

Re: splitting power

Robert, you may also try looking into transformers that can change 110 to 220....

Robert Critchley

9 Posts

Oct 18, 2004 08:10 am

Re: splitting power

hi . reguarding the wire size as you mention in your responce, you are correct as per the manual. you open up the thought as to this subect. a person with little experience would have no clue to the why in their paragraph stating "DC to AC inverters require high amp/low volt DC power to low amp/ high volt AC power. for 2500w use # 4 wires x 2 or for 5000w # 2 wires x 4. all this helps as per our messages is to why i started/asked for this dialog to splt this power.there are 4 rear connects. i really appreciate all of the info provided

Thomas Allen Schmidt

679 Posts

Oct 19, 2004 04:23 am

Re: splitting power

>i will
>buy a second inverter to form
>my 220 as you suggested as
>a slave.

Hold your horse's. I dont know enough about that particular inverter to suggest to you, buying a second one and wiring it into your breaker panel for 120/240 vac. The information available for the Aims 5,000 watt inverter is little more than a color brochure, even at the company who built it, web site. They make no mention of there inverter being able to produce 120/240 vac with a second inverter. They make no mention of it being able to produce 120/240 vac by itself.
There has to be a preciesly maintained offset of the two 120 vac legs, and this changes with varying loads, so there has to be an interface to maintain the offset between the master inverter and the slave inverter. The only one who could provide this would be that particular inverter manufacture, in this case Aims, and nothing on there web site even suggested that they make such a device.
I suggest that you do some more research first.
Then hire a professional, licensed electrical contractor to perform any electrical work done in or on your home. This would include getting the nesscessary permits and inspections.

Robert Critchley

9 Posts

Oct 19, 2004 08:21 am

Re: splitting power

hello again. i understand the princible of slaving. what i really meant is to create a parallel system and in need connect it to the second leg to produce 220. this system is to be used in power outages only. i already have a remote pannel wired for emergency /min operating home functions. frig ,some lights, freezer and 3 outlet plugs. this was already installed before i puchased the home. it was installed with a main switch diconnect. i guess the person who owned the house prior to me started to think about hurricanes or other catastrophic event. anyhow the system i am thinking of is to be mobile because i own property in a remote area that has no electricity but i do have a 30 ft camper that i want to power. under advisement from friends, that if i left a systeme like that in such a remote area, it would be a christmas present to any roamer that happened by. i really thank you for the time spent on the reserch to anwser.

Ken Hall

351 Posts

Oct 19, 2004 12:24 pm

Re: splitting power

As pointed out above, what we call 220 volt power is two phases of 110 that are 120 degrees apart in phase rotation. (Each phase will measure 110 to ground, but will measure 220 phase to phase.)

All of the transformers that I am aware of, will produce 220 single phase (european power). Connecting an american 220 device to a single phase 220 transformer will either smoke the device, or smoke the transformer.

Tom M

462 Posts

Oct 27, 2004 10:41 am

Re: splitting power

What is the actual power, (Watts), you are looking for to use with the 220V? The inverters must first cover this power. As with any home electric panel, power comes in at high amperage at 110/120 volts. To get a 220, a suitable double breaker is installed to two post of the incoming current and there are usually two ground or neutral leads coming from the appliance plug to reduce the wire size that connects to the neutral bus in the panel. So basically you are using two 110 volt supplies. Try purchasing one of these breakers and mount it in its own panel/box and use one of your inverters as the 110 supply, as from the street, as long as the power requirement is enough...... Then, though i am not sure, you can try hooking the positive of one inverter to one side of the breaker and the other to the other side and join all the neutrals. Seems if the two inverters are in phase it should work. Using only one 220 breaker in it's own box will reduce any risks of destroying your home panel...if anything crazy happens....

Shawn Powers

16 Posts

Jan 4, 2005 08:02 am

Re: splitting power

im need to this please tell me what your out come was..did it work yet

Don Narbone

1 Posts

Aug 16, 2005 12:34 pm

120/220 vac fro 120 v ac

In order to get 120/220 or 240 vac from a 120 vac Aimes inverter, get a pole transformer or underground distribution transformer that is single phase and at least 5 kva rating. put the 120 volt ouput ftom the inverter into one of the 120 vac legs of the secondary of the transformet then wire the 120 /220 vac wires to the input of the distribution panel. you will then have 120/220 volts available from the panel (and hence the inverter). it will be balanced and fully functional. it will not overheat the inverter , or the transformer and will be indistingwisable from utility power except for the modified sine wave output, which effects very few pieces of equipment. It will have an instantanious curremt rating equivalent to the inverter capacity(10kva) added to the reactive contribution of the transformer. This means it will have no trouble starting refrigerators, washing machines etc)I have wired mine directly to the socket outputs of the inverter to avoid the contact resistance of plugs. Be certain to tape up the high voltage leads with lots of electrical tape, one wrap for each 600 volts of high voltage, example 15000 volt hi side needs at least 30 wraps to be safe. dont forget to ground the cases to a good ground. good luck!

Ken Hall

351 Posts

Aug 18, 2005 01:07 am

Re: 120/220 vac fro 120 v ac

what dgnarb1999 describes is impossible with a single phase transformer, which would only have a single 120v secondary bushing. I think he may be using a 3phase Delta-Wye transformer, but his writing skips to much for me to be sure.

The worst thing about his idea is the exposure to 12,000 to 15,000 volts (depending on the exact winding count). It is too dangerous for anyone except a high voltage electrical worker. I cringe at the idea of children getting anywhere near it. (why do you think the electric company puts it up the pole or buries it ?)

If you ever have fire and the electrical is suspected as the cause, your fire insurance company will probably refuse to pay and cancel your policy, just because of the transformer.

His suggestion is plain foolhardy.

John Hottell

4 Posts

Oct 1, 2005 03:07 pm

Re: 120/220 vac fro 120 v ac

Of course before you get a transformer check and make sure the voltage and amperage ratings match the application. What you need is a step up 120v to 240V transformer with a center tap. The output will be 240V between the secondary legs and 120V from either secondary to the center tap. This is the same exact way the pole transformer works though it is stepping down from the higher line voltage. However you can�t just hook up this transformer to your breaker box while it�s on the grid otherwise you will cause great damage. Both AC power sources must be in phase with each other or one will need to be disconnected. I am unfamiliar with the control circuit that would put two power sources in phase. They make them but probably the best bet would be to buy an inverter that is rated for 120/240VAC and has phase correction.

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