a little help

10 Posts
Dec 2, 2009 08:23 pm
a little help

Posted by Lee Butcher on Today at 07:51:59 PM
a little help?
We are living off the grid in South central Texas (mason county) E have installed what is the first step of our system. I installed the bergey XL1, outback inverter vfx 3524, flexware 500 and 12 Trojan t145. We had a local solar co. install the 4 SW175 (750 watts) solar panels and outback flex 80 controller. I know it is winter here but on clear blue sky days is 340 watts the best I can expect at this latitude? The solar guy tells me its working fine.
 Alaskan living in Texas
 
220 Posts
Dec 4, 2009 02:18 am
Re: a little help


hi lee,

quite a change for you moving from alaska to texas. your probably still running around barefoot and wearing t-shirts this time of year in texas!

it's hard to try and second guess someone elses install remotely on the internet. i have to assume he went with two strings of two at 48 volts nominal into that fx80 for your 24 volt nominal system?

sounds like a nice mix of equipment there for an off grid system.

the output will be VERY dependent on your site and the orientation of the modules...i would like to have the ability to adjust them for the seasons in a setup like this.

340 watts peak output is not super bad here with a 700 watt peak stc array but we would always like more.

that outback controller has a nice logging function built in to give you a record of your running daily totals and those totals are really more important than any reading we happen to see during the day at any given moment. for your location we might reasonably expect an average daily total of 1.9kwh's or approx 70ah's at 24v nominal. (houston data of 3.5 hours peak sun and 80% efficiency with a good site location and orientation).

so it's not that bad but more would be gooder!

hows that bergey working out for you?

just one guys thoughts here.

kind regards, dave
 
Dec 5, 2009 07:55 am
Re: a little help

Howdy.
I have lived off grid with PV power for many years.
Knowing the wattage that a PV array is putting out while recharging a battery bank? I don't get it.
I would rather have a battery monitor showing me amphours in and out as well as battery state of charge.
But thats just me.

Say! By the way how is construction on the,
Trans Texas Corridor Superhighway coming along?
I guess it won't be long now that we can all say goodbye to the U.S.A, and hello to N.A.U.? Oh well, freedom was nice while it lasted. I used to think that it was really bizarre how so many people could be duped by so few but not any more. I guess all it takes is one word and its all going to be ok. I mean, as long as the word America is in there somewhere. To think that, just by keeping or removing that one word could be all it would take to make people see what is really going on in the world today and how the events of today will affect the not so distant future, or not see it.

Oops! Sorry about that. I just watched a documentary called Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement, and it was still fresh in my mind. Wild stuff. You all have gotta watch it. It makes Al Gore look like a figure puppet. Anyway -   

340 watts from a 750 watt PV array doesn't "sound" good to me at all but there can be so many variables. Does that Flexware 500 show what your battery state of charge is? Or amps in from PV? Are your batteries fully charged when it shows that 340 watts? Without knowing more about Flexware and its charging parameters I'd hate even speculate about it. Get yourself a battery monitor, something like the Bogart 2020. Even on the most basic on/off PV charge controller, "wattage" could be all over the place through out the day.
 
10 Posts
Dec 5, 2009 08:58 pm
Re: a little help

  The bergey is working good . we put it up in June and the wind kinda layed low. But the fall/ winter winds have picked up its always nice to see some power coming in at night.
  Im taking my readings from the controller flex 80 summary menu. The 340 watt reading was on a 70 degree day without a cloud in the sky at high noon and that has been the Max output.
 It just seems like I see so much more results from the wind genny when its only putting out 500 watts than when the solar panels are at there max.( 4 sw 175'S). My installer just spews out a bunch of algebra to explain that the 340 watt figure is really more like 600 watts.
   Actually the panels are all run parallel to one breaker in my flex 500 then to the flex 80 controller.
 
  Yes it has been quite the transition from texas from alaska. From grizzly bears to rattlesnakes..At least my first summer was a record hot one.
 
220 Posts
Dec 6, 2009 11:50 pm
Re: a little help

sorry to all the great installers out there doing fine work.
but this is disturbing.
  My installer just spews out a bunch of algebra to explain that the 340 watt figure is really more like 600 watts.
   Actually the panels are all run parallel to one breaker in my flex 500 then to the flex 80 controller.

lee,
 you sound like a bright guy/gal. bet in a very short time you could digest enough info to sort this out- if there is in fact a problem. there may not be.

 you can find plenty of help here with recommendations/answers to specific questions. ever used any meters at all? that sort of thing?

rattlesnakes don't hide their nature or their appearance they are as they are..we know one when see it. really remarkable creatures.

you may have found a snake of a different kind..or will be able to teach him at bit more of that spewing "algebra" of your own.

he may be the best installer in texas but time should be taken to answer a customers questions in full.

kind regards, dave
« Last Edit: Dec 6, 2009 11:56 pm by david ames »
 
10 Posts
Dec 10, 2009 10:55 pm
Re: a little help

 The Guy si a good guy just does not have the practical  hands on expierence. I am pretty sure he has no bad intentions. For some reason he just wants to talk and work with the engineers but not people who live with these systems.
  Who knows maybe I will be eating a healthy crow dinner. But Im going to refigure the system myself this weekend into two series of panels, like everyone on every forum and every customer support line hass suggested and clean up all the wireing and connections. and we will go from there.

 Alaskan living in Texas
 
220 Posts
Dec 11, 2009 03:58 pm
Re: a little help


sounds like the perfect plan lee.
kindly keep us posted.

cheers,dave
 
10 Posts
Dec 15, 2009 10:26 pm
Re: a little help


sounds like the perfect plan lee.
kindly keep us posted.

cheers,dave

  Well I started by putting a blanket over each panel while my wife watched  the controller. The results were obvious two panels were not working so with my handy multi meter I tested the leads at the contoller then at the panels. Somewhere between the panels and the contoller the power was lost but at least the panels are good.
  So I decided to give the installer one last chance to man up when I told him of the the test I had done he called them fraudelent and he was not going to be bullied into rewiring a system that was performing as it should be.
   So I used the wires from the two operating panels and ran two parallel series and wala the performance has doubled.  600+ kw  Ye.......hawwww
  Silly Me
 
220 Posts
Dec 16, 2009 01:50 am
Re: a little help


lee,

 i see a big problem here..with your wife witnessing this problem solving, she will now expect all kinds of miracles from now on around the house!

 "600+w  Ye.......hawwww
  Silly Me"
 
 sounds like that was worth a few hours on the roof..and confirmed your gut feeling.


 "so with my handy multi meter..."

 these darn things are pretty useful, every solar installer should think about investing in one.

thanks for the update.
cheers, dave

 
10 Posts
Dec 16, 2009 07:52 am
Re: a little help


lee,

 i see a big problem here..with your wife witnessing this problem solving, she will now expect all kinds of miracles from now on around the house!
 
 
   WE have another version of the blanket test that I use to perform miracles, in the house
 
   sounds like that was worth a few hours on the roof..and confirmed your gut feeling.


    Yes it was. I just wanted to give the installer every possible chance to man up. Before I changed anything I had an independant expert come over and witness what had been done and advise me on what I should do.
  The rewiring though far from complete took a total of ten minutes. 
  Yet my gut feeling from the start was one panel was not working so I was wrong on that. Two were not working.


 "so with my handy multi meter..."

 these darn things are pretty useful, every solar installer should think about investing in one.

thanks for the update.
cheers, dave




 more volts x more amps = more watts    second grade math


 What a relief as I was beginning to doubt myself and the cost of more panels was out of the ballpark running the generator was looking better all the time $ wise not anymore.
 

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