Need to know details on hooking up 17V panels

if you are just getting started:

for free info, forum is good, but i would just take my time and read articles and watch videos in the university section.�  there are tons of free articles for those patient enough to read and absorb it.


keep reading and learning BEFORE buying if at all possible.

i would also suggest this book for those starting and wanting a practical guide.� 

http://www.altestore.com/store/Books-Classes-Educational-Videos/Solar-Electric-and-Passive-Solar/Photovoltaics-Design-Install-Manual/p481/

james
altE staff
 

Dear James AND Thomas,

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOU REPLIES!

I actually have been researching this for a fair amount of time, and my interest is just increasing exponentially.  First, let it be known that I am still a novice at this.  Also, I am learning.  Lastly, I am doing what is order (studying, researching, investing time and money) to actually get into the solar industry.  I want to be the guy that comes to your house and hooks up your system for you.  That's what I'm doing here, and I feel like I've struck a GOLD MINE with Alt+E.  No joke. 

James, I have been going through all these articles for some time and knew that the information that I needed was already in type, right here.  I'll admit, I took the lazy way out on this one and looked towards to these forums for the answer to be posted because I know you and the people that use this site have a lot more time invested than I do, and knew that someone would be able to point me right where I needed to be.  I was right, so good... and thank you again for doing my leg work!  The article you posted was a perfect explanation.

My intentions with all this is as such:  I followed a suggestion that if you are trying to get your hands on some cheap panels, to call around to companies that do the service work (where I will eventually be working) and ask them for any off-spec, or damaged, or blemished panels that they cannot use and are looking to get out of the way for cheap.  It was some of the soundest advice I ever took.  The first place that I called had 31 panels in their warehouse (nothing wrong with them at all, they just could no longer use them for installs) for literally $0.50/watt.  I needed to commit to buy them all, which is why I hesitated at first, but then after thinking about for a few months, I realized that I should just get them all, keep a few and sell the rest for money to buy the rest of the system components.  Not a bad idea, eh?  It's working.  Within 3-4 hours of posting them on ebay, I sold one and many more are expressing interest.  So far, so good.

What ever the panels were, I figured I could FIND a use for them (I have a computer with powered studio monitor speakers and an electronic drumset that I'm aiming to be able to power, at least for a few hours out the day, if that's all I can do).  I don't have experience with solar panels, and I wanted some, so my determination (and research) is currently providing me with a means of success.

From the money I will make from such a good discount, I;m going to try to get not only the rest of the system, but also, take some educational classes here in Florida for a week and at the end, they offer to take the NABSEP exam.  If I can eventually pass (I've got A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of reading to do!) then I was told from the owner of the company I bought all these used panels from that he would hire me on the spot.  Call me ambitious, I know... but I call myself motivated to get this and to start doing whatever I can do to help the world's energy start.  Humble beginnings... 

Thomas, thank you so much for your reply and your insight.  This is why I came to this site... because I know people like you are out there and willing to help people like me.  That's what it's all about!  I appreciate your concern, and assure you that I will respect these panels with the respect they deserve.  I wish I knew every single detail I needed to know before messing with this stuff, but I don't, or else I'd already be selling and installing these panels professionally.  It's the old chicken-before-the-egg deal.  Like, getting a credit (card) when your young, just starting out - you gotta have it first before you can get it! 

I've got some educational material from a guy based out of Miami, here in Florida, that writes books and designs programs and classes to help teach all about what I need to learn.  His name is Mike Holt.  Check him out.  I got a 2008 copy of the NEC and (essentially) a training guide to help turn this mystical information into something I can learn and understand, and (eventually) master- the kind of thing that you and James have already expressed to me that you know! 

I'm sorry for being so long-winded, I just wanted to explain myself a little more to you and express my gratitude towards ALL who are in this together doing this!  You are all my brothers and sisters, who I have yet to meet!

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

Mike

ON second thought... I'm still up-in-air about the MPPT charge controller.  I don't know exactly what I'm talking about yet with that.  All I know is that money is NOT the issue here with me, and I do NOT want my frustration to come from cheap quality components.  Got me?

I cannot confirm the you have a 12 volt nominal PV module from what I have read from your posts here. A PV modules nominal voltage can be derived from the Vmpp or Vmp - Volts at maximum power, (not to be confused with the Voc - Volts open circuit which is a higher rating than Vmp) which is typically found on a label on the back of PV modules. But even if its Voc is 17 volts, chances are it is a 12 volt nominal PV module but the Vmp will be much lower if it is. Possibly something in the 14 volt range. If it is this way it would not perform as well in a hot climate as it would in a cooler climate. It would be great if you could come up with the power curve chart for this particular PV module.

Here is a specification (cut) sheet on a modern day, brand name PV module.
http://sunelec.com/kc130tm.pdf
Take a look under the electrical characteristics heading at "current/voltage characteristics" "at various cell temperatures" and you can see how, as cell temperature goes up voltage goes down. One reason why most new PV moduels have a higher Vmp and Voc than older ones
Let me stress here that I am not saying this what you have. The point is, without specifications of your particular PV module I cannot tell for sure that it is 12 volts nominal. It all depends on weather the 17 volts you mentioned earlier is Voc or Vmp.

MPPT - Multiple Point Power Tracking charge controllers are a good investment especially if the PV source circuit has an exceptionally long wire run, and or the PV array is on a tracker and "sees" the sun from first thing in the morning to last thing in the evening.
PWM - Pulse Width Modulated charge controllers work very well otherwise.

Another good "tool" I use is this. The number of hours of equivalent full rated charge from a PV module per day. Man, somebody needs to come up with a shorter name for that or an acronym or something. This site -
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/redbook/atlas/
gives a very good indication of that under various circumstances. Just follow the instructions.

There is another "tool" you have probably heard of, its Ohm's law? You need one other thing to go with the wattages you gave and thats time. How long of time will these wattages be drawing power from the PV/battery/inverter system over a 24 hour period?

I would have to say that best investment I made concerning PV power was a subscription to Homepower magazine.
http://www.homepower.com/home/

Thank you both for your help.

I figured I'd get a real good battery because I'd like to see how one really performs.  That Surrette I was looking at... would it be able to safely be connected in parallel to the Xantex PowerPack?  I see some sort of similarity between the two in that both say 20 hours, but the Surrette also states the 357 Ah.  Why do they have two numbers on the Surrette, other than to confuse me?

I am definitely motivated to get into the industry.  I've actually already paid my registration fee to FSEC, down here in Florida for their PV Class, and after taking the class, I will be eligible to take the Entry-Level NABCEP exam.  Any advice (other than buy and read Photovoltaics: Design & Install Manual)  And yes, when I asked the owner of the solar service company I bought my panels from how I could get a job either in the industry or with him, he said, "If you go get NABCEP Certified, I'll hire you on the spot."   Now, I wonder if he's talking about the Entry-Level, or the big-dog certification.  I need about 3-4 years experience to get that certification... I wonder if he knows that.

I just got the deluxe solar starter kit from Alt+E in the mail (with the 25 watt panel instead of the measly 6.5 watt it comes with), so now I have both the Design + Install Manual as well as the kill-a-watt.  FUN STUFF!

As for the 12V panels, I've deduced that they are, in fact, 12V nominal after going to the links you sent.

Which battery would you suggest that I can beat up, but still offer me plenty of capacity?  I'll have to swallow me ego and get something not quite as good, if that's the best idea.

Also, I took the advice, and got the subscription to Home Power.  Now I just need to READ READ READ.... EVERYTHING!

OK, but next post, I will have a finished loads list for y'all.


Gracias!

The Xantrex power pack UL approval is as a portable (temporary) power inverter. It is for plug in use only. If you attempt to use it as a part of a permanent system, it would be a NEC code violation.

While I have never used it, it appears to be a half voltage scheme inverter. Assuming that it is, if you ever connect it to a standard 110V system with a neutral bonded to ground, you will either smoke the inverter or cause other severe equipment damage.

If you want to go beyond plug in use, look for a different inverter.

Ken