Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

2 Posts
Jul 12, 2007 04:03 am
Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

Is a boat or a float an earth-bound anti-gravity device? (I should add "warm weather" to earth-bound)Also, is a float held at the bottom of a body of water considered stored energy?

I have numerous questions about fluid or hydro dynamics, I need help finding a forum where I can share some of my ideas and get some feedback. If anyone could guide me to an appropriate forum it would be much appreciated.
 
462 Posts
Jul 12, 2007 02:45 pm
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

..don't forget about the earth itself...it floats...try looking at some fluid dynamics forums or cosmology or physics sites or forums
 
Jul 26, 2007 05:44 am
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

Seriously?
OK... Let me ask you a serious question.
What exactly is Gravity?
Does it fall within the spectrum of electromagnetism?
If so, what is its frequency or speed?
According to Albert Einstein "E=mc2" that is to say that energy and matter are one and the same at the speed of light squared. What happens when we apply this equation to gravity?

As for your question of stored energy. Yes, absolutely.
Think about the magnitude of each of the two WTC buildings collapsing and how much energy there was it that. Every bit of the energy that it took to build them, from the mining of the clay and iron ore, to the manufacturing of the bricks and beams, to the transportation of these, right down to the rising and setting in place of not just them but all of the components, and furniture, etc., etc., was released almost all at once but, in a since, it happened in slow motion. If that had happened at the speed of light squared it could very well have "rocked" our galaxy.
Would you believe that rust is an explosion of energy?

Gravity and anti-gravity.
What is Gravity? Seriously.
 
5 Posts
Jul 26, 2007 02:34 pm
re: Re: what is gravity

Gravity is: pull between masses because of the mass itself. And who knows why masses pull on each other: electro-magnetic energy, motion.

The center of the earth has a much higher density than you or I and it is moving and we get pulled toward it - if we get far enough away the pull diminishes until it goes away and we feel the pull by another mass dense and large enough and close enough to affect us.  Right now you are being pulled on by the moon, it's just not a strong feeling.  The moon is such a light weight the astronauts had to wear heavy boots or float away.

The Universal Law of Gravitation:  the attractive forces between two particles (masses) is directly proportional to the product of the masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between their centroids.

F = G m1 m2 / (gc r)**2

Thats gravity.

How can you harness it?  Walk something up to the top of a structure and release it.

Sure it would be terrific to harness and control a particle that could levitate mass.  Check out a fusion lab.  So far they can only split one and try to contain it in a power plant.

Hope this helped.
 
52 Posts
Jul 26, 2007 07:12 pm
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

I really tried to stay out of this one... but I just can't help myself... this one's just so far out there.

I think the OP was asking if a boat would be considered an antigravity device.

I think Mr. Schmidt's point is that gravity is still a phenomenon that's not completely understood and that we should try to get a good theory of gravity worked out before we start thinking too much about anti-gravity (correct me if I've misinterpreted). I'm not sure what he's getting at with the WTC example, other then that if the mass of WTC was converted into pure energy it would be a (much) greater force then the free fall collapse of the building.

FD gives us the text book definition of gravity from physic's 101. I haven't had time to look it up, but I remember that there were four fundamental forces: the strong and weak nuclear forces, the electro-magnetic force and gravitational attraction. I also remember that folks have had a lot of trouble getting electromagnetic theory to agree with gravitational theory- this leads me to think that the reason masses pull on each other is not electromagnetic energy (I don't have an explicit proof of this, just a hunch). I'm also fairly sure that motion is not the cause of gravity. Just looking at the Universal Law of Gravity there is no reference to change in position. I can picture two stationary (unmoving) partials that would still have an attractive force. The centripetal force of a rotating object is not the same as gravitational attraction. (If you spit your gum out while riding on the spinning ride at the amusement park it’s not gravity that causes it to fly back at your face).

Here's the way I picture gravity in my mind: I think of a piece of graph paper. I draw a strait line from point A to point B. Any partial traveling from A to B will travel in a straight line, unless acted upon by an outside force. I then take the piece of graph paper and wrap it around a basketball.  The strait line, AB is now a curved line. Gravity is like the basket ball and the piece of paper is like space. The gravitational force is not ‘pulling’ the partial- the particle is traveling through a straight line though bent space-time. In this scenario masses don’t exert forces on each other per se; they just bent the space-time surrounding each other. This is my armchair understanding of the General Theory of Relativity.

SOOOO…. If gravity is the bending in space-time caused by mass that would make antigravity a striating of space-time! The only thing I could think of that would cause such a straitening would be antimass. (Not to be confused with antimatter that has mass). This leads me to believe that if your boat has mass then it’s not an antigravity device. If your boat is made of antimass then perhaps it would be.

Although I don’t think they have a forum I’ve enjoyed reading from “How Stuff Works”

http://science.howstuffworks.com/
 
5 Posts
Jul 26, 2007 10:15 pm
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

No. A boat floats due to the "displaced" water having weight that counter pushes on the hull from below.  This is a fluid force.  If you took the displaced water and put it in a container - could you lift that much water?  The boat can't push it down and out any further.

A flotation device held under water - same as an air bubble wanting to travel to the surface.  The object is less dense the water is more dense and wants to squeeze the lighter item to the surface. (so to speak) Again, the bubble is displacing a mass of water that wants to re-fill the void where the object is.

In one vision you can see that gravity is causing this fluid force as the objects have different densities and the greater masses pull toward each other.

The string theories of energy contain electro-magnetic variables and other influences which make these equations work. 

My extreme point of view is everything in the universe is in motion and in "curved" space.

In classic astrophysic elliptical calculations you can see how much our large moon has on the rise in tide - and think of how far away it is.

So, gravity pulls the water toward the center of the planets dense core while the moons gravity pulls on the water creating the tides as we all go round and round.

A person standing next to you pulls on you but, you can't harness such a small force.  A building pulls on you but, you can't harness it, do you even feel it?  Do you feel the moon pull on your insides?  It is so mild there is "no" power to harness.

I think we are left with what we already know.  There is wind, and waves, and tides (got a big basin you can fill?), and height off the ground, and sunlight, and molecules, ... .

I'd like to find that magnetic field in the midwest to move boulders - but, the earths N-S fields have shifted since that one man construction job.  (okay, I admit, this ones way out in left field)

Hope this helps.



 
52 Posts
Jul 26, 2007 10:43 pm
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

Eureka!

 
Jul 27, 2007 11:35 am
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

The reference to the WTC's was in response to the question of a float held at the bottom of a body of water is consider stored energy. Considering the energy used to put the float at the bottom and hold it there, then yes it is stored energy waiting to be released. Wether or not more or less energy is observed in the release than in the storing is another argument.
The effects of Gravity have been explained much like the effects of wind have been explained but we now what wind is and what creates it.
I can only guess at what Gravity is and what creates it but for my guess to be correct then we would have be in a macro/micro continuum. Which is to say that, what we (humans) can observe of the electromagnetic spectrum within the confines of our biological and technological abilities is, at the same instant, the smallest part of something way larger than could every imagine and the largest part of something way smaller than we could every imagine. Its kind of like making your right eye look to the extreme right and your left eye look to the extreme left at the same time. Even though the muscles are there to do this, there has been no reason for our eyes to be able to do that, so our brains don't know of a command to send the eye muscles to preform this feat. I would like to express to any children reading this that they not try this experiment without parental supervision! Time comes into play with this as well but I'll save that for another time. Getting back to Gravity though. We know that the farther away we get from our Earth the less effect our Earths Gravity has on us but that our Earth is not creating that Gravity its only the effect that Gravity has on our Earth that effects us humans. There is to our knowledge four states of matter; solid, liquid, gas, and plasmatic. For us to truly comprehend just exactly what Gravity is, I think that we would have to know is, just exactly what we are in the macrocosm. Is what our universe is, within a bit of blood? Or maybe we are part of a deep sea sponge? A molecule of air perhaps? Who knows? We could be anything at anytime. Energy is never "consumed" it merely changes from one state to another. One thing is for sure, we are impure energy. We are a form of solidified energy and this will all change in due course. After all, energy and matter in there purist form is light itself.
Imagine striking a match. For us it lasts for only a few seconds but for the microuniverse of molecules and elements, swirling and changing, intermingling.... somewhere within it all, there may have been sentient beings, unaware of us but for there kind, billions of millennia may have past by.
 
462 Posts
Jul 27, 2007 12:12 pm
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

If you think of space as a fluid, mass moving very fast, then think of Bernoulli's equation. If a fluid moves fast between two objects, then there is a lower pressure there  causing the two objects to come together, making it look like an attractive force that some call gravity.
 
52 Posts
Jul 27, 2007 12:26 pm
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

Which is to say that, what we (humans) can observe of the electromagnetic spectrum within the confines of our biological and technological abilities is, at the same instant, the smallest part of something way larger than could every imagine and the largest part of something way smaller than we could every imagine... Time comes into play with this as well but I'll save that for another time.

There was an interesting artical in Discover magazine about what happens to time at the very smallest intervals:

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/in-no-time

I would have titled the article "Zeno's Ghost"... I guess that's why I don't work in publishing. Cheesy

Also an article about some recent empirical evidence confirming General Theory of Relativity:

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jul/einstein-was-right

"Nearly three years ago, NASA’s oft-canceled $750 million Gravity Probe B Relativity Mission finally shot into space with one goal—to quantify Einstein’s predictions from Earth’s orbit. Earlier this year, at the meeting of the American Physics Society, principal investigator Francis Everitt delivered the first results: Gravity Probe B has verified Einstein’s theory to within 1 percent."

 
5 Posts
Jul 29, 2007 12:41 am
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

And there is the question again, what is gravity? 

Didn't the string theorists figure it out?

Isn't electro-mechanical the stronger localized force of gravity?

I do not believe the big bang displaced fluid theory re-filling the void(s) forcing me down on the Earth's surface since, the planet is spinning too fast.

Then there is this confusing analogy:
"Outerspace" (which has no particles in it) is like a "web" with bowling balls on it. 

Maybe the analogy is correct but, I don't think the web is the cause of gravity but a vision of a negligible side affect of what the "ether" looks like due to masses moving through it. 

Obviously outerspace particles, just like air, move when objects pass through it.

I think the electro-magnetic field is too geometrically large for us to detect and maybe so weak we can't detect it.

We've considered theoretical particles - maybe we already know them all and just haven't figured out all their capabilities.

In the meantime we at least have Einstein's and Newton's and Bernoulli's and Archimede's equations to use the natural forces in nature caused by ... .

Finally:  thank goodness someone is out there providing products to minimize our current impact on the environment - and why I joined this website.

P.S. (if someone discovers a strong localized magnetic field like the devil's triangle  harness it - I doubt the planet will stop rotating - unless your as big as Saturn)










 



 
Jul 29, 2007 10:26 am
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

How about this question. Are Gravity and molecular cohesion one and the same?
There is whats know as the Hutchinson effect, mass can be effected by changing the frequency energy harmonics. Gravity has an energy matrix and with all energy that matrix has frequency oscillations that create a carrier wave effect. This is also true about subatomic particles and their weak and strong nuclear bonding. The structures have energy bonds holding them in there order. It is this electromagnetic field bonding that creates the effect known as gravitational attraction.
It would seem possible that if a person could find a way to collect the frequency energy being produced by mass then transmit the gravitational energy, we would have an unlimited supply of energy potential to draw form. However, if resonance effect is not controlled the result would be a catastrophic breakdown of sub atomic and molecular cohesion starting a cascade chain reaction effect. But if the effect can be controlled the potential for massive energy production would be unlimited.
 Could this be happening in a natural way. Coronal mass ejections from our Sun can, at times, have an extremely large amount of mass. Some the size of Mount Everest! Our Earth is bombarded with this mass all the time. Each having thier own respective resonance energy matrix. Its when that mass is repelled by our Earths magnetosphere, we witness the Auroras near the North and South poles.

But a bigger question arise in my mind. What do we need with all of this energy anyway? What is it that drives humans to the brink of madness in a quest for more and more?
 
52 Posts
Jul 31, 2007 12:18 am
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

"And there is the question again, what is gravity?"

In my studies of philosophy, for the most part, whenever you get deep into anything you end up asking yourself, "what is x anyhow?". I stopped worrying about finding 'necessary and sufficient' definitions, mostly cuz i couldn't find any, and started to think more pragmatically (a typical American story).   

"Didn't the string theorists figure it out?"

They might have! I read Feyman's QED and pretty much gave up after that.

"Maybe the analogy is correct but, I don't think the web is the cause of gravity but a vision of a negligible side affect of what the "ether" looks like due to masses moving through it."

This might be referring to the graph paper/basket ball analogy. I didn't mean this to imply that space/time was the  cause of gravity... it's more like the field that gravity is played on. And I'm no physicist! This is just the way I feel the universe to be from some stuff I've read. From my recollection, "ether" was a reference to an absolute space, where the photon's launched traveling on a train would move faster then the photons launched from a stationary position. I don't think general theory of relativity implies that space/time is the cause of gravity, mass still is. It's the basketball that is curving the paper.

"I think the electro-magnetic field is too geometrically large for us to detect and maybe so weak we can't detect it."

I know some people that have been hit with some seriously strong DC current that might have a contrary option.

"thank goodness someone is out there providing products to minimize our current impact on the environment - and why I joined this website."

I'm glad your here FD!

"How about this question. Are Gravity and molecular cohesion one and the same?"

As far as I know they are not, and that's been one of the big issues in physics for the last 100 years or so.

"It is this electromagnetic field bonding that creates the effect known as gravitational attraction."

Well I can sort of see this. If M1 has a mass of 1 and M2 has a mass of 2, and they are bonded via an electrical attraction, there combined mass would have a greater gravitational effect then if unbounded, but I don't see the causality- but I haven't studied the Hutchinson effect... maybe for tonights reading.

"It would seem possible that if a person could find a way to collect the frequency energy being produced by mass then transmit the gravitational energy, we would have an unlimited supply of energy potential to draw form."

Any particle that has mass has a gravitational force. If we  interpret the Heisenberg uncertainty principle literately, then the gravitational effect of an object changes as we observe it's velocity. If we can harness a very small amount of matter's gravitational energy, and manipulate its position via observation, then we can create energy via differing wave positions. Peek-a-boo energy. Cheesy

"However, if resonance effect is not controlled the result would be a catastrophic breakdown of sub atomic and molecular cohesion starting a cascade chain reaction effect."

Hail Eris!

"What do we need with all of this energy anyway?"

I love my iphone.

But for real, we are in a fight against thermodynamics. Life seems to oppose disorder as much as it can. If we're on a fight for life, then were on a fight for energy. Living requires consumption of energy, and that is not a bad thing at all.









 
« Last Edit: Jul 31, 2007 12:56 am by Chris Brown »
 
5 Posts
Aug 11, 2007 08:11 am
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

I agree with Chris - so many of us search for answers to the same questions Einstein had.  I'm going to leave it up to the "top" physicists.

And after all my rants and side stories - I re-read the question.

I interpret the question as: is a buoy under water an anti-gravity "device".  And my answer is, no.  It has to have an external force applied to it to get it under water in the first place - all it is tryingto do is seek it's own distance from the center of the planet (level of "gravity") according to it's density and once it reaches it it has no energy of it's own to counter fight gravity ever again unless an external force is applied to it again to move it out of it's location.  (yea, I think I got back on track)

And someone else here explained this - Tom ?
 
2 Posts
Oct 10, 2007 12:00 pm
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

NO.  If it were an anti-gravity device it would float into space. 
 
Nov 6, 2007 05:11 am
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

After Re reading these posts I am left with another question. "Do great minds think alike or do they think for themselves?" Whats more, and this is not an original thought of mine ether, "who decides which is real and which is an illusion?"

Dear, Human Race
My thoughts about this so called "energy crisis" humans have created, can be compared to riotous, and the inevitable panic in a mob, where people will blindly trample other people to death under foot or crush other people to death against barriers, and if an individual survives, delude his or her self into believing all is OK. History is full of these events. This is only one of many atrocities the human race is capable of.
If we believe that energy will set us free and that there is a cause to believe that there is not enough energy then what is to stop us from doing whatever it takes to be free. When will there ever be enough?
Electricity from nuclear energy or photovoltaics is still electricity. If I can learn to live without electricity, then I am not dependent on either one for my freedom from...... What? What is the threat? What are we running from that makes us utilize electricity? Death? Life? Do any of us have a clue?
Or are we just moving along with the mob!

Sincerely yours; Trampled Under Foot
PS. Pity about Earth huh?
 
1 Posts
Apr 25, 2008 02:38 pm
Re: Anti-Gravity device. (serious question)

Check out Jean Pierre Nadon on You Tube or just type in Lifter Propulsion or Anti-gravity propulsion.

I think we have the nature of gravity a bit confused. It seems to be electro-magnetic in nature.  How do UFOs hover?  Apparently it's a reversal of protons. 

But I am fascinated by anti-gravity propulsion and free energy.  It will be a great day indeed when these two technologies are made available. These two alone can solve most of our global problems.
« Last Edit: Apr 25, 2008 02:39 pm by Cindy Preville »
 

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