Tom M's posts

Don, issues can happen anytime on anything. If they are in good shape, their output is good, you want or need them, and you can get them at a low price, go for it.
 When you go to install them, I would suggest a ground mount to keep installation and possibly removal cost down. Also you would be able to monitor the panels much easier, until you are sure the are okay.

Don, here is one post that states the warranty. Easy enough to find. Just searched for kyocera 120 pv warranty....

http://www.w3studio.net/sunera/kyocera_pv_module.html

anyway, 20% over 25 years. Not sure if the warranty will carry over to a second user though. You should be able to find a manual with the full warranty in it online somewhere. Just do a little more searching.
  Best to check them all, individually if possible, and make sure all are working up to or near specification to get the best bargain.

A few more details of the pump and the piping/holding tank situation would be great. Without details, I would say a pressure or level switch  that sends power to an electric motor hooked up to some type of linkage attached to the pump handle....unless some vandal took the handle...

Travis most inverters are designed to take this surge into account. That is what capacitors do. They build up charge and disperse it accordingly, saving the surge action from happening on the batteries themselves. Remember, keep it simple. Adding more and more devices increases possible problems.
  I've seen some real old PV systems that used the type of capacitors you are exploring. The system took up an entire wall. But this was before modern inverters were around.

Travis, an inverter is just a capictor also. It just has addecd features such as voltage and input/output capacities.

Yup Travis it works. That is how it was done before there were charge controllers. If you are feeding actual voltage from a panel, and it is supplying an amount of current then that is going to charge your battery. Controllers only limit and regulate these factors for safe battery charging, when folks like yourself do not have the time to monitor such things....

No biggie Michael. Just don't want Jim to get to confused.
 Jim another thing you can do is rotate the batteries positions within the string, especially if you are only charging from one end....

Carla, yes you would still have to pump it back into the storage pond but essentially you would/could have some excess water available should there be no power for the pumps. Either way you decide, you are still pumping the same amount of water based upon the power you are producing. Just think of the pond as a storage battery in a PV system. If you charge it while there is plenty of sun, it will give you power for those times when there is no sun.
 Another benefit to the pond is to use your two existing pumps in parallel to fill the pond. This will conserve on  electrical power thus getting more gph from the power source you currently have.
 If you do a storage pond you could think of how you deliver the water to the waterfalls. Using a narrowing channel or piping would reduce the amount of water needed while increasing veloctiy probably/possibly giving you the same waterfall effect you have now with just the pumps.
 

Carla, the pump you suggest uses 15.5 amp x 12 volts, so 190 Watts. There are a variety of DC pumps here at AltE you can check out also. Have you considered using a storage pond for your waterfalls? Then you can fill the pond whenever excess power is available or channel rainwater whenever it rains into the pond for free.

Well, Michael, this is why I put the statement to check with the manufacturers suggestions for charging and discharging for his particular batteries. Note that they are gel type batteries which require a slower charging rate than lead acid.
 Also if you read James' post, he has a back up generator for charging so there should be no reason why he is not getting enough charging power. This can also be a problem since a generator does not comply with a slow charging rate as recommended for these type of batteries. So perhaps it is you who needs to do his homework...Also, as you suggest, the 30-40% of discharge is not being achieved due to the fact that the generator is kicking in at the setpoints he has programmed....

James, it could be that the batteries never get down to the proper depth of discharge voltage. If you never let them discharge low enough, they won't charge properly. Just like a cell phone battery, if you don't let the battery die and then charge, it will never come to a full charge that will last a long time. Instead you will get less and less run time out of it.
 So try letting the batteries come down to their minimum, around 10 - 11 volts, or whatever is recommended for your particular batteries, before recharging.

...just be careful what material you use if running earth tubes through water. A common material used is clay, such as chimney liners or old sewer pipe. These are usually vitrified to keep water out. Other materials such as metal can rust over time and allow moisture and water into the tube. This can cause mold and other such creatures, some of whom create waste, to infiltrate and can create bad air, which in turn can enter your home and make it sick.
  I would rather see them encased in a bed of sand to help remove water.
 Another material you could use is PVC pipe. At least you can glue all connections to be water tight. Only draw back is the conductivity.
 Also be sure to install accessible clean outs to be able to flush the tubing out once and a while. Adding a small fan (PV powered?) will help convection and keep the tubing dry.

Nope, most 12 volt batteriew will charge up to 14 volts so 13 + is okay.

Travis, good deal. If you are pushing air out of the house into the attic, think of closing all your windows except one in the basement (if you have a basement). This will draw air through the cool basement, thus cooling it, then through the house, while pushing the hot air out of the attic. I do this without a fan, just natural convection, and it works great.
  While you're at the junkyard, throw some brake lights in your pocket. At around 1 amp they give off bright light. Great for emergency lighting or every day use.

After seeing so many employers and customers requiring nabcep certification I just felt that I once again had to show how bogus their certifications really are. Here are two examples from their site and training manuals that prove that their certification doesn't hold water. To me it is a tool to promote poor installations by unqualified installers which in turn can lead to the public being duped into believing that solar is not the answer but just another technology gone bad.


Disclaimer
Information presented in this publication is intended to inform candidates as they prepare to apply for and complete the process for the NABCEP
Certified Solar Photovoltaic Installer™ Certification Program. While making every effort to provide current and accurate information, neither
NABCEP, nor its employees, volunteers, or representatives warrants or guarantees the accuracy, completeness, timeliness, merchantability, or
fitness of the information contained herein for a particular purpose. Reference herein to any specific commercial product, process, training
program, or service by trade name, trademark, manufacturer, or otherwise does not constitute or imply its endorsement, affiliation, or support by
NABCEP or other contributors to this document. While individuals certified as a Certified Solar Photovoltaic Installer™ are required to meet
established certification requirements, NABCEP maintains no control over these certificants or their related organizations, and disclaims all
liability to any party for any action or decision made in reliance on the information contained herein or otherwise provided by NABCEP, or for any
actions or inactions of candidates or certificants to any party, or for any loss or injury, resulting from the use or non-use of such information.


NABCEP certification is not a professional license issued by a government agency, and does not authorize a certificant to practice. NABCEP certificants must comply with all legal requirements related to practice, including licensing laws.

Travis, it seems you are worrying about something in which you have no control over. Current outputs from the panel are going to vary with varying sunlight. Tell me, do you worry about the voltage when you are at work or only when you are at home watching it? Do you have anxiety when it gets cloudy? Do you run home and use your radio the minute the sun comes out to maximize direct power? Relax.
 When using a battery, the power draw comes directly from the battery and doesn't care what the panel is doing. The panel and controller are doing it's job, keeping the battery charged. Let it do it and just worry about your battery's state of charge. As mentioned before, adding more batteries only gives you peace of mind during cloudy days and at night when recharging power from the panel is minimal or non existant. So if you come home from work and the battery is charged, do a little dance and celebrate knowing your system is keeping up with your demands.   

Travis, usually when designing an off grid system you size  your battery bank to have enough power for several days in the case of no sun. So adding the second battery would compensate for this situation and the panel you have would use the excess power created (wasted in your terms) once the sun comes back out to charge both batteries back to full state.

Lyn, we just need to know the power draw from each appliance and how long you plan on using them.

so, -what draw of power from each appliance? (there should
    be a tag stating watts or amps)
    -At what voltage are they operating,  12, 110?

Travis, no need for a second controller. Just add the second battery to the first in parallel.(neg to neg, pos to pos). Try to buy the same battery. Basically you are adding more storage for power from your panel.
 The panel you have puts out around 8 amps so you probably only get 50 amp hrs a day, which covers your usage. Any excess will contribute to recharging your loss and keep the extra battery fully charged.

Peter, check here at Alte for a DC to DC converter. There are several that go from 12 v to 48 v....just wire the battery/controller outputs to the converter and you should be all set...be sure check current outputs or draw from inverter for whatever appliances you plan to use to be sure converter can handle the load....

Thomas A. We are not sure what type of batteries Steven is using. If one is gel and another is sealed or lead acid, mixing the two types could create a problem. This is another reason why I suggested keeping the two separate. Remember, charge controllers usually have a switch for different types of batteries. Redundancy, as I mentioned is also a good consideration. Safety first. Especially if the owner is not around to check on things. An ounce of prevention is worth a ton of fire and a ruined vacation home......

...guess you misunderstood.Again, "if you keep the two battery banks separate, each with their own charge controller, there should be no problem wiring leads from each bank directly to the inverter"
 So Yes, you can hook up leads from both banks to the inverter. It is the charging situation that should be considered when mixing different types of batteries.
 Just think of a pool of water, if I have one hose dripping water into the pool and another with a steady stream, the flow coming out of the drain cannot determine, or doesn't matter or care which hose is flowing faster. But if I try to hook up the steady stream hose into the supply of the dripping hose, I will only get drips coming out of the drain.
 As far as location of the batteries, I meant the physical location of the batteries, eg outside shed or porch, not the geographical location.

Steve, if you keep the two battery banks separate, each with their own charge controller, there should be no problem wiring leads from each bank directly to the inverter. The main reason to keep them separate is so they charge correctly and to capacity. One bad battery can ruin the bank's ability to charge correctly. Also having two set ups adds redundancy to the mix. If one system fails, at least the other is still up and running. A good thing if you are only there one week a year to check on things.
  Building an insulated box as Thomas A. suggests is also a good idea. Just make sure it is vented to allow gases from the batteries to escape. Using a thermo-electric heater along with a cheap thermostat could work for you. You can buy a cheap thermo-electric cooler and rob the unit from it. Or use the cooler itself as the insulated box if it is big enough, or modify it.
 Just curious, where are the batteries located now? Just wondering why they are freezing.

Steven, what you are looking for is a charge controller. You can find many here at Alt E. store. But first you have to determine how much power you plan on producing. eg. How many watts from all the panels you plan to buy. Right now you only have one 15 Watt, 12 volt panel so you only produce around one amp. Charge controllers go by amps so a small morningstar controller would work.
 It is usually not a good idea to mix batteries so you may need to have a couple set ups, one with the six volt batteries and one with how many of the new 12 v batteries you plan on purchasing.
 I would skip the turbine since you are only at the house one week a year. This is plenty of time to charge the batteries using your PV. Just do some math. Right now, that one 15 Watt panel would take around 1000 hrs of sun to charge the four 6 volt batteries to capacity at 12 volts. At 6 hrs of sun a day, that would be around 170 days.
 You can use the calculators here to determine how much power, or how many of a certain panel you need depending on how many of the new batteries you decide to use. Also figure out how much power you actually need or use each time you are on the island. Then you can figure how much power needs to be replaced.
 

Hey Amy, I checked the MA code book and nothing about it there. You can go online and get a majority of the code book. There has never been much on solar added that I know of, only one short paragraph. All other considerations would come under "cross-connections".
 Some inspectors have their own little quirks when it comes to inspecting. This may be one of his. Also there is no "real" inspection when it comes to SHW. It is still a gray area.
 Also if the document is labeled as a "recommendation",  it doesn't seem to be something that is "required" and may just be a liability document from past manufacturers. Which is why it isn't in the code book.

Might as well hang on to the tank. The installed one will have to be replaced at some time. Prices probably won't go down. (Next time don't call you know who.)

PS: If he is still running a heat zone off solar, think of using the return line heading back to the panels instead of robbing tank hot water.

I'll have to double check that. Most hx tanks work off a boiler using dirty boiler water. Probabably more caustic and deadly than antifreeze.....I use non-toxic glycol all the time in SHW systems so that is probably his only beef....

Andy, just curious, I know you already bought a new tank, but being a plumber here in MA, I have never heard of such a thing as a single wall heat exchanger being illegal. Most heat exchanger tanks such as SuperStor or Vaughn have heat exchangers that only have a single wall and these are used in everyday installations. So just curious as to who told you this information. If it was your installer, maybe he wasn't familiar with the Sunmaxx or was reluctant to install it if he did not purchase it.
  The only thing I can think of with a double wall is an external heat exchanger whereby there is a tube within a tube, one with fluid from the collector and one with fluid from the HW tank. The surface area of the inner tube is the heat exchange surface.

Frank, first thing you gotta do is total up the power you need. Each appliance should have a tag that states either
Watts or voltage and current.

Voltage x current = Watts.

So if the tag says 110 V  and  2 amps, then 110 x 2 = 220 Watts.

If you use this appliance for 2 hrs then you have used

220 watts x 2hrs = 440 watt hrs.

This used power would take a 120 Watt solar panel 4 hrs to replace.

Now add up all the appliances you want to use. The big killer is going to be the pump.

Best to first think of changing over to DC as much as possible.

Solar hot water should also be on your mind as a first step to save some money.   

Pat, sounds like you got it pretty much right. Only thing I would suggest is to possibly add a second battery.
 Here are some wiring suggestions-
 - Wire each cc directly to the battery, not spliced together as it sounds you did. (If you add a second battery then wire each cc to opposite ends of the battery bank.)
 - Wire the inverter directly to the battery. (Surge power may damage the small cc.)
  Does the wind cc have a diversion mode? If so you may need to make a diversion load that will handle the wind power once the batteries are full. There are several ways to make them or you can purchase something here at Alte.
  As far as AWG, there are charts here at Alte and other places so you should be able to easily find how long a run of a particular gage wire is suitable for your current outputs.
 

Don't forget, solar is a nuclear energy.......