Thomas Allen Schmidt's posts

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Mar 1, 2009 03:48 pm

#181 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: What is energy?
E=mc2
E = energy
m = mass
c = celeritas: Latin meaning "swiftness." In this case the speed of light in a cold hard vacuum. 671,000,000 miles per hour.
2 = in this case, to square or multiply an amount by itself.

Energy equals mass times the speed of light squared.

So, to answer your question Gina Roberts, energy is mass, mass is energy, they are one in the same. There is mass in light and light can be defined as pure energy. We and everything around us was at one time light and, we and everything around us will eventually return to being light.

http://www.crystalinks.com/gordianknot.html

"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books---a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects."
A quote from the late Albert Einstein. May God rest his soul.

http://dbs2000ad.com/narayan/egghead-personality.htm

Personally, I have a tendency to see things from a perspective that, where and what we are, is somewhere within a macroscopic-microscopic continuum. If we could have a microscope powerful enough we may just be able look so far as to see the back of our head as we peer into the microscope and vise-versa.

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 26, 2009 07:40 am

#182 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: I want to run a Servel gas/electric refridgerator off of solor power
A lot!
This may not be what you want to here but, it would be wiser to spend the money that would be needed to power that Servel with a large PV array, battery bank and, inverter on a more efficient fridge made for running off of PV.
http://partsonsale.com/sundanzer.html

Another alternative might be to run a bio-digester.
http://www.ruralcostarica.com/biogas-handbook.html
or
http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/cdgoodgood/product-detailoqSJCTdMLAUF/China-Home-Scale-Bio-Gas-Digester.html





 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 26, 2009 07:11 am

#183 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: Saving Money on Water Heating
The only foreseeable down side to this is that the top element might come on more frequently and stay on longer than normal while water is idle.
Hot always flows into cold.
As the heated water in the top surrenders to the cold water below it might call for more heat more often.
 Shouldn't be much more though and still a lot less energy� than both elements working I would think.
Include a timer so it only comes on prior to anticipated use.
It would be cool if somebody could do a controlled experiment on that.

I have often wondered if it would be ffeasibleto route the clothes dryer exhaust through the flue of a converted gas water heater tank as a way of reclaiming otherwise lost heat. It would act solely as a preheater. Problem is we hardly ever use a the dryer. We just hang'em on a clothes line and let the Sun and wind dry them.
Here is another approach someone came up with.
http://www.toad.net/~jsmeenen/recovery.html

More fun stuff.
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/whh/pages/water-heater-museum-home.html
 
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 25, 2009 10:31 pm

#184 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Sump Pump powered by Solar system
Somewhere on the pump/motor is a tag or label the should show voltage and amperage or voltage and wattage. You may allready know the voltage if it just plugs up to a 120 volt receptacle. If the pump/motor is inaccessible and/or its not "plugged up" instead its "hard wired"as it may be if its 240 volt, you may need to get a multimeter with a clamp on amp meter. However its done there are three things that must be known; 1 - voltage, 2 - amperage or wattage, 3 - runtime over the longest period of time of a blackout anticipated. Is it a residential sewage pumping station or more like a basement sump pump? Sometimes the pumping stations will have two different circuits. One for the pump/motor and the other for the control/alarm (in case the pump fails and the liquid level gets too high.
I will give you an example of the math.
120 vac 8 amps = 960 watts X 6 hours of runtime in a 24 our period = 5,760 watt hours or 5.76 kilowatt hours.
5,760 watt hours / 24 vdc nominal = 240 amphours.
240 amphours X 5 = 1200 amphours battery bank.
That multiple of 5 would keep the battery bank in its top 20% of charge which would increase its overall life span and help it to recovery it charge faster the next sunny and/or windy day.
The PV array.
240 amp hours X 24 vdc nominal = 5,760 watt hours.
5,760 watt hours / the number of hours of full rated charge from a PV module ?4 = 1,440 watt PV array at 24 volts nominal.
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/redbook/atlas/
Go here and select; average, annual, and flat plate tilted south at latitude. Find your area on the map and it will give you an overall idea of how many hours of equivalent full rated charge you can anticipate.
If you have any questions write back here at this forum.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 22, 2009 11:38 am

#185 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: 1KW or Smaller Grid Tied Windturbines?
Probably to late with this but...
http://bergey.com/
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 21, 2009 08:05 pm

#186 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: Wheego Whip Electric Cars Come To The Rescue
http://reformation.org/who-killed-electric-car.html
http://www.teslamotors.com/
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 21, 2009 07:28 pm

#187 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Whisper 200 control panel
11.14 X 1,000 = 11,140
11,140 X 1,000 = 11,140,000
Which one is more likely from a 1,000 watt wind genny?
If you had sustained winds of 26 mph for 24 hours straight that would equal 24 kWh's. Or 24,000 watt hours.
If the winds stay like this for an entire month, this would be equal to 720 kWh's. Or 720,000 watt hours.
If this lastest an entire year non stop, that would equal up to 8760 kWh's. Or 8,760,000 watt hours.
In fact, it would take sustained winds of 26 mph winds for 500 days for a 1,000 watt wind genny to produce 12,000 kWh's. Or 12,000,000 watt hours.
http://www.kansaswindpower.net/Whisper%20Wind%20Generators.htm
http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/maps.html
In case you haven't guessed it already, k stands for kilo which is synonymous to x 1,000.
http://www.metric-conversions.org/

"I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details."
Can you quess which famous person made this quote?
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 21, 2009 06:55 am

#188 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: How do I determine how many wind turbines I will need???
Take a look around Mr.Moschilli, anybody looking? Good, cause this can be a real head scratcher. Wouldn't want anybody to think you dandruf or anything.
http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/maps.html
This web site has maps of the United States and its average wind speeds. The first map is a yearly average. Take a look at the legend in the lower right hand corner. Its very small. Even if you blow it up its hard to read but it looks like it gives an estimate of watts per square meter at a given elevation of a supposed turbine. I can only assume that the watts per square meter would be the total area of the propeller which can be indicative to its maximum output at a given wind speed in miles per hour. (The bigger the swept area of the propeller, the bigger the generator, the more power it can make.)
With an electric bill of $165.00 a month, if you live in the southeast (any where white) and you want to eliminate that bill, your better off going PV. If you live in the Northwest (any where blue or black) you have a fighting chance.
1800 / 30 = 60 kWh's per day
Areas of white: 0 to 100 watts per meter squared at 30 meters high - 60,000 / 100 = 600 square meters of swept area.
Areas of black: 400 to 1000 watts per square meter at 30 meters high - 60,000 / 1000 = 60 square meters of swept area.
Get it?
Obviously the total swept area can be one or more wind genny's.
Keep in mind though that these are only averages. As they say, "your mileage may vary."

http://www.bergey.com/
Go to this site and click on Bergey Excel and look over the specifications. You'll see that in a sustained 31 mile per hour wind its rated output is achieved. Now look at the map again and it looks like in the white areas, average winds speeds at 30 meters elevation, are up to 8 mph average. This is right at the cut in wind speed of the Excel. Obviously not the best choice for those areas but a better choice for those areas in black and at a higher elevation.

Lets say it was in a black area and at 164(?)feet. According to that map we can expect average sustained wind speeds of up to 26 mph. Much closer to rated output of the Excel. I would think that under those circumstances, one Excel would be sufficient. Where as in white areas at 30 meters, multiple Excels would be required and at, roughly $30k a pop that could get expensive real quick. While your at the Bergey site read a round and familiarize yourself with the technology and terminology. Knowledge is power!
Does anybody know where a map is that we can actually read the legends?
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 15, 2009 05:00 am

#189 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: Trying to Figure Out How to Get Started
I apologize to you Andy. I did not mean that you are a fool personally. What I meant is that I think the human race is being foolish for allowing itself to become addicted to electricity and other forms of energy and I include myself in that foolishness.

Lets explore that $38,000 stack of PV modules still in their boxes a little more. If I am not mistaken, the national average that is payed per residential kWh for grid supplied electricity is $0.0915 (cents). You stated a monthly average of 1,711 kWh's. If we multiply 0.0915 times 1711 then bing bang boom we have a monthly bill of $157.00, now we can take that $38,000 and divide it by $157.00 and (nothing up my sleeves) presto change-o we have a 20 year pay back for that stack of PV modules still in their boxes.

I think that, for the sake of fairness, I should add here that PV has gotten a little better over the years. There was a time (late 70's) when a 64 watt module with no frame, no J-box or MC cables, and only a one year warranty sold on the open market for between $400. to $500.. Now we can get a 205 watt module with a frame and, MC cables and, a 20 year power output warranty for between $1,100 to $1,200..
Lets see that a difference of about $2. to $3. per rated watt less and the aluminum frame and the 20 year warranty.

Heres a few fun facts. The amount of electricity produced World wide for one year is 18,000,000,000,000 kWh's.
Wow! At $0.09 cents per kWh thats $1,620,000,000,000.
I can start to see why RE wants a bigger slice of that pie. I think RE produces only about 4% of that world wide.
Thats only $64,800,000,000. a year.
Poor things.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 14, 2009 07:10 am

#190 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: Trying to Figure Out How to Get Started
Given the 57 kWh and the location of "the CA desert halfway between Los Angeles and Las Vegas."
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/redbook/atlas/
This site tells me that what you can hope for is 6 kWh's per square meter per day. What this means is, how much solar radiation expressed in the form of wattage is striking our Earth from our Sun.
I phrase this as, the number of hours of full rated output of a PV module per day because in reality, a PV module does not convert that 1000 watts per meter into 1000 watts of usable electricity by 100%. Its more likely to be only by 10%. In other words. A 100 watt PV module will measure approximately 1 square meter and if I had a 100 watt rated PV module there, then that would be .6 kWh's per day averaged out over the year. 
This may not be the most scientifically agreed upon way, but its a fair enough assessment in my book. Anything else in my opinion is just picking nits. Take it or leave it.

Now that that unpleasantness is out of the way. You gave us 57 avg.kWh./day.
Simply divide 57 by 6 and ta-da! we have the need for nothing less than a 9.5 kilowatt PV array. Even at U.S. $4.00 per watt not installed, still in the box, thats an amazing U.S. $38,000.

Renewable Energies is not a "cheaper way out." Its just another way of enabling ourselves. If you want to save some real money, learn to live without electricity. The entire human race lived without electricity for thousands of years. Its only been in the last 100 years that we have begun to believe that we cannot live without electricity. Somebodies laughing all the way to the bank. Was it P.T.Barnum that said, "Theres a fool born every minute."?
"Would you walk away from a fool and his money?" Beatles lyrics.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/esr/esr_sum.html
If you jump down to the last paragraph  you'll see the figure $343.7 billion. RE wants a piece of that.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 12, 2009 04:17 am

#191 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: Renewable Energy Blogs
What do you want to read that stuff for anyway? Its all just a lot optimistic fluff and dander. A lot of the RE power potential is regarded as an average. Most of those places will "swing the average" in favor of optimism. I think they call it "forward thinking." I've been reading that stuff for over 30 years. Its been pretty much the same all the while. What RE could have been and what it has become, I see as two different things. It would seem to me that for the sake of making profits, RE just wants to "slip into bed" with the established energy infrastructures and the politicians. I may be an opponent in some respects. Mostly all of the hype surrounding RE. I've lived off grid for almost 30 years, only the last 10 with solar electricity. I am a proponent of the simple fact that, where as 6 billion people need electricity in order to live, the human race does not need electricity in order to survive on the planet Earth. I am not pessimistic and I don't consider myself "backwards" by no means. Just give me a specifcation sheet and I'll figure my own averages and decide if its cost effective for me or not.
Anyway heres a few places.
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/home
http://www.ases.org/
http://www.nrel.gov/
http://my.epri.com/portal/server.pt?
This ought to keep you "spinning" for a while.
Pity about Earth.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 10, 2009 06:32 am

#192 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Mis-matched batteries
"The correct answers are known for making a proper system solar system, however our problem lies in the fact that this is strictly a "not for profit" setting and we simple need to use what we have until further improvements can be made accordingly."

Sacrifices are to be made. In an earlier time this was done quite literally. From the choice of livestock to virgin brides. There was at least, the hope of getting something in return. In a more modern time, automation is what we are paying for. As time goes by we (the human race) rely more and more on machines to carry out life's mundane tasks for us and whats more is we want these machines to be as automated as possible, freeing us to indulge in life's pleasures. Do we know what it is we are sacrificing for this?
http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsObesity/

Mr. Comeau
While searching the internet for the lowest prices on PV and related electrical, as I often do, I came across the article below and was reminded of your questions. Of course it involves adding equipment, something I think you expressed a concern about, but what you suggested has been done by somebody. Recharging two dissimilar battery types (sealed gel and flooded lead acid) from one (PV) source.
The description starts after the second photograph.
http://www.solarseller.com/photovoltaic_systems_at_our_location_.htm

I am sure if you think about it you will come up with a solution to this. But you may not like the sacrifice to be made. I just don't know.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 9, 2009 06:13 am

#193 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Check My Calculation
5 watts x 6 hours a day / 12 volts nominal = 2.5 amphours per day.
(In retrospect, I should have included the fact that watts are watts. A watt doesn't know the difference between voltages. Besides when using an inverter, the 120 vac would not be in the equation because its actually coming from the batteries. Thats why I used 12 volts nominal in the equation above and not 120 or 110.)

115 amphour battery x 2.2% = 2.5 amphours.
(Again in retrospect. What your using from the batteries, I assume at night, is only within the top 5% of battery capacity. This shoud give you way more than 4 days without sunshine.)

4 - PV modules, .350 amps @ 12 volts.
4 hours of equivalent full rated charge per day.
4 x .350 x 4 = 5.6 amphours per day PV.

A surplus of 3.1 amphours PV per day. Not including inverter or wire loss inefficiencies.
(Last, these inefficiencies could add up to as much as a 15% loss. 15% of 3.1 still leaves a surplus of about .5 amphours.)




 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 9, 2009 05:28 am

#194 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: Widow Films?
http://www.mirrorsheeting.com/
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 8, 2009 07:25 am

#195 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Where and how to set up a solar pool pump system
Wow! I really need to browse the Alt-E Store more.
Forget everything I wrote above Mr. Lopez and check this out!
http://store.altenergystore.com/Solar-Pool-Heaters-and-Pumps/Solar-Pool-Pumps/Lorentz-Solar-Pool-Pump-with-PS600-Controller/p5827/
This comes with a strainer, I assume to protect its own pump impeller from debris, but it also comes with an 120 vac back up.
I can't help you with the back pressure specifics. I don't know what type of filtering agent you would be using; sand, paper, etc., etc., or the difference in back pressures from one to the other. It might mean a few more watts of PV to overcome this. I don't know. You'll have to use your judgement on that.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 7, 2009 05:39 pm

#196 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: require info about solar panels...
Well Vinayak Iyer, thats an unusual name. I mean, I don't get to see one like that often. Danish? My Grandmother is Danish. Thats my Fathers mother. Her maiden name is Johansen. Since I am on the subject of names, there are some names that have become "household" words over the years. Would you take a look at these sites please Vinayak?
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Biographies/WattBio.htm
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Biographies/VoltaBio.htm
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Biographies/AmperBio.htm
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Biographies/OhmBio.htm

We mortal humans need to know at least two things about electricity in order to size the electrical or vice-versa.
I=V/R
Impedance = Voltage / Resistance
Or a more understandable way of saying the same thing.
Amperage equals the Voltage divided by the Wattage.
A=V/W
Or likewise.
Voltage times Amperage equals wattage.
VxA=W
Or.
Wattage divided by Amperage equals Voltage.
W/A=V
I am sure you have the idea now.
You gave us volts but now I need either amps or watts in order to complete the equation and in this case, also run time. With time we can know the watthours or the amphours as well. How many hours do you want to run the motor?

Typically, manufactures of electrical doodads will place a label on their gizmos that states at least two of these, not including time. But time can be required for a specific or non-specific rating such as; @ the 20 hour rate or, continuous and, momentary. There is one that applies to PV and thats, the number of hours of equivalent full rated output per day. I do wish someone would come up with an acronym for that. Or something.
What that means is, PV modules do not make their full rated power all day long. No, they start out in the morning very much below rated output and as our Sun comes more perpendicular to it, the power goes up and up until noon time and then power output starts to decline into the early evening. What we do then is add up the total for a day and divide that by the PV modules full rated power output in watts. Here is a site that can explain that better.
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/redbook/atlas/

I hope something here helps you and that you write back with more.


 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 6, 2009 08:20 pm

#197 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: off to on grid
A grape is to a raisin what a ______ is to a prune?

Below is a few places that can give you more information to juggle around.
 Basically though, the cost of a PV system to power a conventional house as if it were "off grid" would cost as much as a life time of electric bills. Its a general rule of thumb that "off grid" is best left to those that want to build a remote home but to have grid power means spending $10k to $20k or more for miles of wire and poles.

Think about it this way. Take your electric bills for one year and add them all up. Multiply that by how long you expect live and pay for your electricity. Thats about how much money you might need to go off grid at your current home that is on grid. Unless of course your already 90 something. Part of the reason for this is battery bank replacements.

Another way to look at it. A 10kw PV array might cost as much as $50k if you can get dealer prices and, after any state incentives and, if you do the work your self. If your in an area that does not "net meter" Then you might be getting "payed" the averted cost for your electricity. What it cost the power company to make it or a city to buy it. Lets say your only getting payed $0.024 cents per kWh. A 10kw PV system might make a 40 kWh a day averaged out over a year. Thats $0.96 cents a day or $350.00 dollars a year. That means this system will have payed for itself in the year 2152 if it was installed today.

After all is said and done. What do you want to do Mr. Butterfield?
It all depends on that and uhh, how deep your pocketbook is. Know what I mean?
In the meantime read up. Knowledge is power!

http://www.dsireusa.org/index.cfm?EE=0&RE=1
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/redbook/atlas/
http://www.homepower.com/home/
http://www.solarelectricpower.org/
http://www.cleanerandgreener.org/resources/pollutioncalculator.htm
http://photovoltaics.sandia.gov/
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/bulk-solar-panels-by-the-pallet.html
http://www.aeesolar.com/
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Biographies/OhmBio.htm
This is just the tip of an iceburg.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 6, 2009 07:16 pm

#198 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Mis-matched batteries
There is no "best way" based on what you have unless the older gel cells are in the "final stretch" of their lively hood anyway. If you don't need the additional amphours that the gel cells can provide try selling them. Unless of course they are, on their "last leg."
I suppose if you have a way to spare maybe one PV module every now and then to maintain the new "deep cycle" (I assume that those are flood cell lead acid deep cycle) batteries in "storage" until such time as the gel cells are useless.
A lot depends on the age of the gel cells.
Surely there is something that can be done with them, somewhere by somebody. Are there any high schools nearby that have a need for them? How doe's that saying go? Oh yeah, pay it forward.
Best of luck to you.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 6, 2009 05:06 am

#199 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Where and how to set up a solar pool pump system
3/4 HP vdc pool pump. Not exactly the kind of thing you can pick up at Wal Mart on your way home from work is it?
You don't have to answer that Mr. Lopez. Its a rhetorical question.

Right off the top of my head I came up with motor options here.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/guideBrowseMatches.shtml

Speaking in terms of PV wattage to motor wattage your ok.
A 3/4 HP vdc motor will only draw around 700 watts to run. Of course this will only be for the equivalent of about 5 hours a day in the summertime in your neck of the woods. Maybe more if you can find a PV direct motor controller.
http://www.pvsolarpumps.com/dankoff_linear_current__booster_.html

Here is a sample package for a shallow well/high volume system.
http://www.pvsolarpumps.com/lorentz-pumping-systems.html

Keep in mind that its design purpose is for delivering well water but it gives you an idea of how much water it can move in 5 hours. Your system I assume will be forcing pool water from an above ground pool through a filtering agent of some kind. How often is it that the entire 14k needs to be filtered? Once a day? Once an hour? I am not familiar with these sort of things where pool care is concerned. We just go down to the creek. Usually, if we're loud enough, we can scare off all the snakes and bobcats and stuff so we can have the creek to ourselves. Depends on just how hot it is that day. Then theres the snappin' turtles. They ain't gonna budge. Folks around here tell if they get hold of your toe, they won't let go 'til it thunders. Can you believe that? But I bet you know all about that kind a stuff, what with alligators and all down there in Florida?

Anyway. If you manage to get a working system put together would you share it with us? The system I mean, not your pool of course.

It might be more simple to include an inverter and a small battery pack and run the 120 vac pump motor that came with your pool. The cost would be caparable to a PV direct system but with the right setup you could run the filter/pump longer if necessary. For example -
A 12 volt, 1000 watt inverter with pass through and charge capabilities, 2 - 220 amp hour golf cart batteries wired in series, appropriate charge controller, and a setable timer for the 120 vac supply circuit.

Put the time clock on the 120 vac volt supply circuit going to the inverter. Set the clock so that 120 volt power is passing through the inverter to the pump during the night and recharging the batteries. Then during the day it cuts off the 120 volt supply and the inverter goes to batteries to make the 120 vac until the Sun comes up and takes over. In the afternoon the batteries take over and if they are sized right can carry on until night. Most inverters like this will have a low battery voltage shut down anyway. I'll have to get back with on this. Crunch some numbers and all. Roosters a crowin' its time to get right for work.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 4, 2009 03:17 pm

#200 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Specific Gravity - are my batteries charged or not?
Bogart Tri-metric 2020 I think is the lastest edition.
May as well get the 500 amp shunt.
At first it can be a real head scratcher to program but once it is, there is very little to do afterwards. Whats so great about it for me is its history abilities and the reminders.

I have yet to read the manual on the SB2000E but I do know that most (if not all) PV charge controllers will have different voltage limit set points, at the very least for different types of batteries, ie. flooded cell lead acid, sealed gel cell, yadda, yadda, yadda...

I think I'll take a gander at that manual now.

Back again. Sounds like a good controller. One thing about it that raised my eyebrows was the equalizing charge doesn't automatically turn off when done. I've burn a pot of beans on the wood stove more than once. Pages 9 and 10 read, easy to understand. But in all honesty, it would be for someone who reads manuals as a part of their job chores. Try replacing an Hitachi L300P with a Yaskawa V1000 after the Hitachi has blown and all of the parameters were lost. Just kidding. I troubleshoot industrial motor controls (among other things) for a living.

I agree about the glitches but in time I think you'll forget about them or maybe at least put less importance on them and go about your life as you would with just a few more chores. Or maybe just different chores. I don't miss filling the Kerosene lamps, but sometimes I miss reading by them.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Feb 1, 2009 08:31 am

#201 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: How much do I need?
Indeed. It is all about averages. Any and all "energies" demand a resource of one kind or another. In your case Mr.Bartlett you want to utilize the Sun and Wind. Nothing new really. I mean humans beings have been doing this since, well since there has been humans! Just recently though for the purpose of generating electricity. Which I believe is what you wish to do. So with that in mind I'll get back to averages.
Average wind speed and average solar radiation for the purpose of generating electricity will obviously be higher or lower as determined by what region of the planet Earth we are referring to. Obviously the equator will have a greater average of solar radiation than say, the North or South poles. Like wise, a mountain top will have a greater average of high speed sustained winds than forrest floor would.
All common since, right? Right!
Even the amount of consumption of a resource is based on averages for a region. For example: Someone living near the North pole would have to rely on a greater average of energy for the purpose of heat, where as a person living near the equator might rely on a greater average of energy for the purpose of cooling or less for heat. Lets face it we humans adapt to warmer climates with much less effort than cold climates but it would seem that we prefer a place more "in between." Not to hot, not to cold, at least were averages over the seasons are concerned. With that in mind, here are some average wind speed and average solar radiation charts for the U.S.of A.
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/redbook/atlas/

http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/maps.html

I believe what you will want to do is "predict" daily power production from Sun and Wind for your specific site on our Earth as averaged out over the year. This should give you something with which to compare with your electric utilities monthly bill.
In a "nutshell" one will spend an almost equal amount of money to harvest solar and wind energy and convert it into electricity as one would pay for a life time of electricity generated from any other source. We have commoddities brokers to blame for that. The reason for non-polluting renewable energies is precisely that. They are non-polluting and renewable. As opposed to other resources used for generating electricity such as burning coal.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jan 30, 2009 02:41 pm

#202 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: What is wrong with my system?
A picture can speak a thousand words.
To answer your question with more accuracy now that I have seen it Mr. Cheung.
If its in the U.S.A., its illeagle.
If a U.S. Fire Marshall were to see it he would probably slap a big fine on you and make you disassemble it.
Sounds harsh I know but if it were to burn your home down and that damaged your neighbors homes, how to you suppose you and your neighbors would feel about it then?
http://www.nfpa.org/
Heres a picture for you to look at Mr. Cheung.
http://www.precisionpower.biz/images/fire.jpg
I applaud your desires for using PV Mr. Cheung and that you know that you need to upgrade the safety of your system but in the meantime I suggest you add some fire extinguishers.
Other than that. I've got nothing else to say.
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jan 28, 2009 09:02 pm

#203 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Bang Bang Bang goes my solar hot water heater
Both intakes and drains are the same elevation.


Well, about that link. It was primarily to get an idea of your system plumbing scheme. Not so much orientation, although that could have a bearing on the plumbing scheme. If you would. Could you clear up the above quote for me?
Uhmm is that, the intakes and drains of each collector plates are at the same level with each other?� 
Or facing the collectors with the south to your back, does the pitch of the roof put the drain at bottom rightside corner (towards peak of roof) and intake top leftside corner (towards gutter) level with each other? I am trying to imagine what your system looks like and possibly why its bang bang banging.
Possibly one of these two places might shed some light on the subject.
http://www.solardepot.com/pdf/Sunearth_Copperheart-SRCC.pdf
The first has a drawing on page 1 of a collector facing south but mounted on an eastern facing roof. Is this how yours is Mr. Patera, only on a westerly facing roof and with one panel 10 foot in front of the other? Is there anything else about this file that is comparable to your system? Take a look at page 8 fig. 13a also. Only yours would be a "mirror" image because it is on a westerly facing roof.

http://solardepot.com/st-sunearth.php
The second shows several plumbing schematics. Maybe one of these is comparable to your systems actual plumbing scheme?
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jan 28, 2009 08:46 pm

#204 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Permanent Magnet DC Motor wiring question
I second Mr. Halls assessment.
Certain wind genny's can be turned off simply by putting a switch in series with - and +, effectively "locking" the rotor. Of course the batteries have to be disconected first.

PV modules will put out closer to short circuit amperage when powering a large load as opposed to just recharging batteries.

This reminds me of that story about the guy who, from a young age, picked up his young calf every day, and as his calf grew, the man was able to pick up his full grown cow. Believe it or not!
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jan 28, 2009 08:16 pm

#205 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: What is wrong with my system?
33 amphours at 12 vdc.
100 watt load.
100 / 12 = 8
33 / 8 = A completely dead battery in a little less than 4 hours. Typically, one wants to size a battery bank so that the night time load(s) draw only the top 20% of full charge. No more that 50%.

1000 watts of PV at 12 vdc nominal.
4 hours of equivalent full rated charge.
1000 / 12 =  less than 83 amps (I'd say more like 50 amps)
4 x 50 = wasted potential on 33 amphour batteries.

Try a battery bank bigger than 33 amphours. At least 440 amp hours at the 20 hour rate. Ideally, 1000.


 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jan 28, 2009 08:07 pm

#206 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Morningstar PS-30 System Help
Almost nothing can take the place of actually be there in person to see and, sometimes hear and, even feel in order to trouble shoot a problem. The biggest exception to that I know of is if a person has had the same exact experience allready. I have never had any experience with a Morningstar. I do have experience with several other brands though. So all I can do is read the spec. sheet and manual.

I have a question. You say "a load that draws 2 amps consistantly."
Then you make a statement about an inverter being wired to the load controll terminals. Is this correct?
 "At the PS-30, the battery terminals read out at 12.17v, (Should be enough to run the inverter)"
"So, I turned off the load and the voltage on the load terminals quickly started to shoot up towards the voltage of the batteries."
If this is true, you might try removing the inverter load from the load controll and placing it directly to the batteries, with protection of course. A fuse at least and see if this solves the problem.

More questions.
Is the 2 amp load at 12 vdc nominal or 120 vac?
If at 120 vac then that will be 20 amps dc. The statement you made about adding more PV, "I tried putting another 100w of solar on it, and it worked fine on a cloudy day,"
Your getting what, about 4 to 5 hours of equivalent full rated charge from the 6 - KC50's? Thats about, 75 to 84 amphour per day. How long does the load stay on in hours?

One more question.
Have you have check temperature of wires and terminals under load?
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jan 25, 2009 03:35 pm

#207 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Bang Bang Bang goes my solar hot water heater
Sorry for being a buttinsky. I am no expert of the subject. As a matter of fact, the one and only solar hot water collector plate I ever made, I totally botched. Luckily (for me anyway) copper cost are over 4 times more than what they were when I purchased it then so... It wasn't a total loss. I was wondering if this diagram might help the two of you "get on the same page."

http://kingsolar.com/hotwatersys.html
(Sorry Alt-E. Its just easier to link a different site)
Mr. Patera. Does this look anything like what you have?

It would definitely seem that trapped air/steam is a culprit. If not the culprit. Debris in the collectors could a culprit too. Long horizontal runs can trap these things, cause a malfunctioning air relief valve. Air/steam/debris might be getting trapped elsewhere in the system and then finding its way to the collectors only after heating and circulation start. Dissimilar metal/plastic unions. Loose pipes... Age and fatigued piping in the collectors.

Did this banging occur before the tank was changed out?

 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jan 24, 2009 04:01 pm

#208 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Required Solar Power Agricultural Water Pump
I just want to add that here in America a typical single family dwelling will use about 1,000 to 1,500 kWh's a month and, there is an over all average of about 3 to 4 hours of equivalent full rated power output from a PV module per day but, this is averaged out over the entire country and the year. Winter months will be lean while Summer months might show a surplus.
Also, PV sells for about U.S.$5.00 per watt, not installed.

1,500 x 1,000 = 1,500,000 watt hours per month.
1,500,000 / 30 = 50,000 watt hours per day.
50,000 / 3 = 16,667 watt PV array.
16,667 x $5.00 = $83,335.00 dollars.

If that same dwelling was paying the utilities $0.10 per kWh, that would be, $150.00 per month. If it payed that amount for 50 years that would be $90,000 dollars.

The photovoltaics industry is going to get its share!

 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jan 24, 2009 03:38 pm

#209 -  Renewable Energy > Technical Discussion: Other > Re: Morningstar Prostar 15A with AC/DC Adapter for input
"I have a few low-power DC loads that needs to stay on 24x7."


 "So, I was thinking of using a 12V DC UPS System to power those devices (can accept 8V DC to 21V DC)."



In review, I am just a little confused.
You want to "build" your own 12 vdc nominal supply UPS utilizing a 120 vac grid circuit?
You want to use that 120 vac circuit to power all of the 12 vdc loads while the utility power is up but, you want the UPS to take over 12 vdc loads when the utility is down and you want a low voltage dc cutoff?

If you could size the battery pack large enough it could go for days without needing to recharge or "cutoff."

Two - Trojan T-105's wired in series will provide 220 amp hours at 12 vdc nominal at the 20 hour rate. Four = 440 amphours and so on.

Somebody is bound to make a charger that has input of 120 vac to recharge if necessary and maintain a 12 vdc nominal battery pack while still being able to power the dc loads.

http://www.directdepot.net/product_info.php?products_id=8965

Just connect your 12 vdc loads to the battery pack.

Of course I have no way of knowing just what your exact situation is as far as; amphour requirements, days of autonomy or, any budget restraints. Do each of the loads have their own battery?

How long do "black outs" last? A week? Just size the battery pack to last 10 days.
With the above charger, "brown outs" might not matter because it has such a spread on the ac input voltage.




 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on Jan 23, 2009 08:07 pm

#210 -  Renewable Energy > RE General Discussion > Re: What will replace oil wells-?
Ya, I know exactly what your saying Mr. Dixon. I feel the same way about all of these, manmade energies, we are being sold today. If only life were as simple as when... I don't know, say, when Socrates walked on the Earth. He did pretty well without them.

http://socrates.clarke.edu/

I wonder what world wide human population was back then? What would you say? 100 million maybe? I envy that.

I think it would be interesting to know an alternative time line. Like, what if the indigenous peoples of what we call North America had been allowed to evolve their own culture up to present day with out white settlers screwing everything up. Probaly something similar to the Early Scott's I would think. Before the Romans screwed that all up. We'll never know now, will we?

One thing we do know is, that if mankind can screw something up, they will.
As the world unfolds. Catchy, don't ya think?
 

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