Wind to grid system

1 Posts
Jun 28, 2003 07:22 am
Wind to grid system

I'm looking for a wind-powered system that I can tie to grid. Something with no batterys, very little maintenance and relitivley inexpensive to purchase. Sounds almost too good to be true! I am not looking to go off grid, just reduce my electric bill. After a bit of online research, a 6 to 7 KWH per day generator would do for the time being. I�ve found some 240 vac wind generators but lack the knowledge to get very much farther. Here are some of my questions and concerns:

Is there a transformer with a disconnect that will take power from a wind generator and pump it directly to grid?

If someone hit a utility pole, how do would I stop power from the wind generator from back feeding through the breaker panel and frying the line worker?

Can this be done with out having to manually hit a disconnect? ( at work, out of the house)

Can I divert the load so the wind generator does not �free wheel� out of control?

This may be basic alternative power knowledge or this could very well be an impossible system to design. I don�t know, but I have yet to hook up with anyone that can help.

Any information would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thank You,
Rich

 
2 Posts
Oct 7, 2003 10:44 pm
Re: Wind to grid system

Hi Rich;

Have you looked into Lakota windmill systems?  They require batteries as I understand all windmill generators do.  We install them for a total cost of $14,500.00 Canadian.  That includes a windmill that operates at wind speeds of 6-120 mph. Also, the price includes an inverter, and batteries, and all hardware and labour. They are self contained and do not require maintenance.  They will last 20-25 yrs. and will cover at least 70% of your monthly electric bill for an average size home.  Two Lakotas will cover 100++.  They can be grid tied if you wish, and if we can obtain permission from the electric company.  

Where do you live?  If you are in Ontario Can. I can be of help.  If not, I'm sure you can find their US site with a simple search.  Our website is at www.WattsGreen.com

If you would like our consultant to answer your questions his advice is available for a fee.

Let us know if we can help further.

Sheila

 
65 Posts
Oct 7, 2003 11:32 pm
Re: Wind to grid system

The Lakota wind turbine does seem to be a promising turbine capable of handling windspeeds and not reduce its power after it goes beyond its rated speed.  We've been very happy with it here at the Alternative Energy Store and offer it our customers. However, I would refrane from assuming that it would produce at least 70% of an average size home.

To start off, in our experience, there really is no true "average" home value for the amount of power (kilowatt hours) consumed.  This varies wildly from state to state, country to country and neighbor to neighbor.  For instance, in my home we consume approximately 300kWHr per month. However, typical customers we speak with (US, Canada and other countries) consume anywhere from 500kWHrs to 3500kWhrs(!).  Clearly that's a wide range, and people on the higher end of the usage spectrum need to look for ways to be more energy efficient. Look at your current electric bill to see how much you currently consume.

Next, you simply can't make any assumption of how much power a wind turbine is going to produce until you know how much wind is your location. The Lakota, as an example, will produce about 250kWHrs per month in average wind speed of around 12mph. In my personal situation, if I had that relatively strong average wind speed the Lakota would produce about 80% of power requirements. However, again, our home tends to be on the very low side of the consumption spectrum compared to folks in the US and Canada.  

Rich, to answer your questions specifically:

You ask: Is there a transformer with a disconnect that will take power from a wind generator and pump it directly to grid?

Response: All of the grid tie inverter systems (solar or wind) inherently and to be electric code compliant will automatically disconnect the power generated by your system from the electric utility line should the grid go down.

You Ask: If someone hit a utility pole, how do would I stop power from the wind generator from back feeding through the breaker panel and frying the line worker? Can this be done with out having to manually hit a disconnect? ( at work, out of the house)

Response: Again, the same as above. The inverter would take care of that automagically and the excess energy would be diverted to a "dump" load (see below).

You Ask: Can I divert the load so the wind generator does not �free wheel� out of control?

Response: Excellent question! Most folks don't usually think about this particular situation (you're clearly thinking of all the possibilities, as you should). Typically the wind turbine systems have a "dump load" (usually a high wattage heating coil/element) where they can dump their excess energy to, should the utility grid be unavailable.

For the Lakota wind turbine, to use that as an example again, we usually recommend:

* An SW series inverter (e.g. the SW4024: http://www.AltEnergyStore.com/cart/2.html )
* The Grid Tie Interface unit to go with the SW4024 and allow you to do grid intertie (http://www.AltEnergyStore.com/cart/951.html)
* Appropriate disconnects and fuses and cables
* A minimal battery bank of ~250A-Hrs (unless you want to have more of a backup power supply)
* A Trace C40 used in diversion control mode in conjunction with a high amperage DC relay to through excess power to a high wattage heating coil (e.g. a electric dryer element - you can get these for $25-$40).
* You're overall cost on the components for such a system would be around $7-$8k.

Going with a Trace SW series Power Panel (e.g.: http://www.AltEnergyStore.com/cart/51.html) will greatly reduce your wiring, time for installation and worries for being code compliant.  It combines the inverter, disconnects and much of the wire nicely on a single metal backplane.

At this time, there are no grid tie inverters on the market that we're aware of that are UL approved and allow you to hook up any 'ol electric wind turbine (like the Lakota) to the grid. There are, however, systems that we sell (such as the Excel from Bergey or the Jacobs wind trubine) that do come with a grid tie inverter specially designed for use with those turbines  and do not use a battery bank. However, these systems cost around $20k-$30k including the towers. This may not be where you wanted to start at, price-wise.


AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able" (tm)
http://www.altEstore.com/
 
4 Posts
Apr 16, 2004 10:24 am
Inexpensive intertie system

I have a Jacobs 10KW similar in configuration to the 20kw system shown on this website.
It is only the top section of the tower(with the generator in the section). also included is the synchronous inverter for the inter-tie and the tail section.
It needs a tower and new props-which should be available on this site.
As these systems cost upwards of $20thou new I feel that $1,000.- is a good price and by putting the system together yourself-you can be assured that you will learn enuf to maintain it later on.
 
1 Posts
Jul 22, 2004 03:50 pm
Re: Wind to grid system

In response to last paragraph.  Windy Boy by SMA is UL listed and will connect to the grid w/out batteries.

mrm

>The Lakota wind turbine does seem to
>be a promising turbine capable of
>handling windspeeds and not reduce its
>power after it goes beyond its
>rated speed.  We've been very
>happy with it here at the
>Alternative Energy Store and offer it
>our customers. However, I would refrane
>from assuming that it would produce
>at least 70% of an average
>size home.
>To start off, in our experience, there
>really is no true "average" home
>value for the amount of power
>(kilowatt hours) consumed.  This varies
>wildly from state to state, country
>to country and neighbor to neighbor.
> For instance, in my home
>we consume approximately 300kWHr per month.
>However, typical customers we speak with
>(US, Canada and other countries) consume
>anywhere from 500kWHrs to 3500kWhrs(!).  
>Clearly that's a wide range, and
>people on the higher end of
>the usage spectrum need to look
>for ways to be more energy
>efficient. Look at your current electric
>bill to see how much you
>currently consume.
>Next, you simply can't make any assumption
>of how much power a wind
>turbine is going to produce until
>you know how much wind is
>your location. The Lakota, as an
>example, will produce about 250kWHrs per
>month in average wind speed of
>around 12mph. In my personal situation,
>if I had that relatively strong
>average wind speed the Lakota would
>produce about 80% of power requirements.
>However, again, our home tends to
>be on the very low side
>of the consumption spectrum compared to
>folks in the US and Canada.
>
>Rich, to answer your questions specifically:
>You ask: Is there a transformer with
>a disconnect that will take power
>from a wind generator and pump
>it directly to grid?
>Response: All of the grid tie inverter
>systems (solar or wind) inherently and
>to be electric code compliant will
>automatically disconnect the power generated by
>your system from the electric utility
>line should the grid go down.
>
>You Ask: If someone hit a utility
>pole, how do would I stop
>power from the wind generator from
>back feeding through the breaker panel
>and frying the line worker? Can
>this be done with out having
>to manually hit a disconnect? (
>at work, out of the house)
>
>Response: Again, the same as above. The
>inverter would take care of that
>automagically and the excess energy would
>be diverted to a "dump" load
>(see below).
>You Ask: Can I divert the load
>so the wind generator does not
>�free wheel� out of control?
>Response: Excellent question! Most folks don't usually
>think about this particular situation (you're
>clearly thinking of all the possibilities,
>as you should). Typically the wind
>turbine systems have a "dump load"
>(usually a high wattage heating coil/element)
>where they can dump their excess
>energy to, should the utility grid
>be unavailable.
>For the Lakota wind turbine, to use
>that as an example again, we
>usually recommend:
> * An SW series inverter (e.g.
>the SW4024: http://www.AltEnergyStore.com/cart/2.html )  *
>The Grid Tie Interface unit to
>go with the SW4024 and allow
>you to do grid intertie (http://www.AltEnergyStore.com/cart/951.html)
> * Appropriate disconnects and fuses
>and cables  * A minimal
>battery bank of ~250A-Hrs (unless you
>want to have more of a
>backup power supply)  * A
>Trace C40 used in diversion control
>mode in conjunction with a high
>amperage DC relay to through excess
>power to a high wattage heating
>coil (e.g. a electric dryer element
>- you can get these for
>$25-$40).   * You're overall
>cost on the components for such
>a system would be around $7-$8k.
>  Going with a Trace
>SW series Power Panel (e.g.: http://www.AltEnergyStore.com/cart/51.html)
>will greatly reduce your wiring, time
>for installation and worries for being
>code compliant.  It combines the
>inverter, disconnects and much of the
>wire nicely on a single metal
>backplane.
>At this time, there are no grid
>tie inverters on the market that
>we're aware of that are UL
>approved and allow you to hook
>up any 'ol electric wind turbine
>(like the Lakota) to the grid.
>There are, however, systems that we
>sell (such as the Excel from
>Bergey or the Jacobs wind trubine)
>that do come with a grid
>tie inverter specially designed for use
>with those turbines  and do
>not use a battery bank. However,
>these systems cost around $20k-$30k including
>the towers. This may not be
>where you wanted to start at,
>price-wise.



 

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