Showing voltage over disconnect breaker when off?

Posted by Ann Byers on October 02, 2009, 08:34:08 AM

Showing voltage over disconnect breaker when off?
Shouldn't I be showing an "open" when measuring the voltage when the disconnect breaker is off?   

I have the disconnect breaker wired on the top going to the positive inverter connection and on the bottom to the positive battery bank terminal and the positive pv output breaker.  When I measure the voltage across the breaker and negative post for the battery connection I'm getting a voltage. I'm taking the reading at the bottom of the disconnect breaker (bottom post on the breaker to the negative terminal on the negative post in the box where the negative battery connection hooks up) I see the voltage of the battery bank.  Why am I not showing an open?
Thanks in advance.
Ann
« Last Edit: October 02, 2009, 08:46:55 AM by Ann Byers »
 

Posted by James Cormican on October 02, 2009, 10:25:11 AM

Re: Showing voltage over disconnect breaker when off? (Reply #1)
good question, lets go socratic method.

if you reply, tell us which load center is in use, and i can provide more detail.

"I have the disconnect breaker wired on the top going to the positive inverter connection and on the bottom to the positive battery bank terminal and the positive pv output breaker"

Q: so, where is the bottom of the breaker connected to?
A: "and on the bottom to the positive battery bank terminal"

Q: so . . . if the bottom of the inverter disconnect circuit breaker is connected to the positive terminal on the battery bank can it ever be off?

A: no, because it is opening the circuit between the battery terminal and the inverter, not the battery and the box, or more specifically the bottom of the breaker.

Q: does the same hold true for the negative busbar?

A: yep, the busbars (and bottom of inverter disconnect either holding one or acting like one) are extensions of the battery bank terminals.  they are always live, as you cant turn the batteries off.

because the busbars in a DC load center are always energized by the battery bank, it is very important that safety gear (appropriate ppe) and precautions are used when operating inside one.  the disconnects (pv, controller, inverter, loads) all
disconnect each other from sources.  with pv and batteries, it is important to remember that opening a disconnect may stop current flow after that disconnect, but there is no stopping the potential for voltage (and current in the event of a short) from a source before that disconnect. 

you would expect voltage across the postive and negative busbars in a dc load center.  they are merely an extension of the terminals inside a box, to facilitate connecting all those disconnects and branch circuits.  should you try to measure current (WHICH YOU SHOULD NOT) you may have an explosion as you would short the battery bank.

hope that helps,

james
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Posted by John D on October 02, 2009, 12:03:46 PM

Re: Showing voltage over disconnect breaker when off? (Reply #2)
Ann,

You said:

I have the disconnect breaker wired...on the bottom to the positive battery bank terminal...

And:

I am taking the reading at the bottom of the disconnect breaker...and the negative post (of the battery)...

Therefore:

You have the meter connected across the battery.  In this case you would measure the full battery voltage.

John
 

Posted by Ann Byers on October 02, 2009, 12:12:52 PM

Re: Showing voltage over disconnect breaker when off? (Reply #3)
James, thanks very much for your quick response. Somehow I was expecting an open but I"m glad to know it's wired OK..I just somehow expected the breaker to create open the circuit.  I'll disconnect the terminal to one battery post before I do any more work inside the box.  I guess I'll have to re-read what the DC quick disconnect actually disconnects.

TO John:  I guess I was not clear in my post.  I was not taking a voltage from the bottom of the breaker to a the battery terminal I was taking the voltage from the bottom of the DC disconnect breaker to the negative post on the **Inside Negative Post*** in the DC box...I guess it's considered the negative bus bar.   I don't think the leads on my multimeter would reach from the inside of the DC positive breaker to the battery bank Wink Wink Smiley

Thanks again everyone!!!
 

Posted by James Cormican on October 02, 2009, 12:34:33 PM

Re: Showing voltage over disconnect breaker when off? (Reply #4)
i hesitate to speak for john here, but i believe what he meant by saying
 "you have the meter connected across the battery"

is that by connecting your meter to terminals connected to the battery pos and neg busbars, essentially and electrically it is the same thing as measuring voltage across the battery bank posts themselves.  the only difference is the addition of the resistance of the conductors, which for your purposes is irrelevant.

notes for caution!!  rather than disconnect the lead from the dc enclosure with it still attached to the battery post, if you have any series connections in your battery bank, i would remove those and leave the other connections put. 

to put it another way, remove one series link from each series string you have, while leaving the connections in the dc load center alone.  then measure voltage at the terminals in the dc load center and in the battery bank where the conductors go from the battery posts to the load center.  since you would have removed one series connection from each string, you should have an open circuit both in the load center and in the battery box.  of course when you do this, have your appropriate ppe, and make sure your meter is set to dc voltage.

when you are all done with your wiring, while leaving all disconnects off, then replace the series connections (with your ppe on).

for what it is worth, i would suggest bringing in a pro if at all possible.  its not that i mind at all answering the questions, but batteries (and most electricity for that matter) can kill you with 1 mistake, and the question while good for theory, gives me some pause to know that it represents the lack of understanding that may put you in danger.  be careful

james
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http://www.altEstore.com/

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Fax: 877.242.6718  or +1.978.562.5854
 
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