Modified sine Wave VS Pure Sine Wave Inverters.

10 Posts
Aug 16, 2009 01:17 pm
Modified sine Wave VS Pure Sine Wave Inverters.

I'm putting together an alarm system for my remote off-grid cabin and have found that I need a Pure Sine wave inverter to run the main console (adapter gets very hot very quickly on a MSW inverter)My total power requirements are quite low, well under 50 watts,and weeks might go by without anyone at the cabin.Along with a price difference. it appears the PSW inverters use more power in standby, comments? The smallest PSW inverter I have found is 150 watts, any one know of anything smaller? Thanks
 
97 Posts
Aug 16, 2009 04:10 pm
Re: Modified sine Wave VS Pure Sine Wave Inverters.

Hi Paul S.  Just a thought here........I am using a Trace inverter which is not small, but it has a "SLT" mode of operation.  In Silent mode, it essentially shuts down and waits for load to appear.  When a load is present, it turns on and produces normal power output again.  This gives it low power consumption in a standby mode of operation.  Perhaps there are other inverters that have this optional operating mode?  Good hunting :-)  Jon C.
 
184 Posts
Aug 19, 2009 10:54 am
Re: Modified sine Wave VS Pure Sine Wave Inverters.

Exeltech makes a 125-watt sine wave inverter.  I've had good luck with my 1100-watt Exeltech Inverter.  John
 
10 Posts
Aug 19, 2009 03:53 pm
Re: Modified sine Wave VS Pure Sine Wave Inverters.

Would that be their XP series? I see they have an XP 125, only uses 5 watts in standby.
 
220 Posts
Aug 20, 2009 11:34 am
Re: Modified sine Wave VS Pure Sine Wave Inverters.


 hi paul,

 my apologies for jumping off the inverter topic.

 in your OP you mentioned "adapter gets very hot very quickly on a MSW inverter"..it is likely that this adapter is powering an internal battery pack to run the alarm system. we may be able to run that system directly from your battery bank?

 these "adapters" usually have the input/output voltages printed on them somewhere. there may even be some info about dc only operations in the manual/website somewhere.

just a few thoughts.
kind regards, dave
 
351 Posts
Aug 20, 2009 12:29 pm
Re: Modified sine Wave VS Pure Sine Wave Inverters.

Dave's idea about running directly is a good one. But, I also know that a lot of alarm systems run on a 6vdc battery.

I am curious about the adapter getting hot and how you determined that the MSW is at fault. Many of the smaller inverters are half voltage schemes. Try measuring the hot to ground and neutral to ground on your inverter. See if you come up with 60V on each.

I am not discounting the MSW being at fault, but I can also see how a half voltage scheme might raise heck with some electronic power supplies. It might be worth a call to the alarm mfg tech support group to see what they think.

If I could not get a handle on which is more likely to be the prime cause of the problem, I would make sure that the PSW inverter is not a half voltage scheme.
From the manual, the XP125 appears to be full voltage, but I would want to confirm that before purchasing.

 
 

 
10 Posts
Aug 21, 2009 07:44 am
Re: Modified sine Wave VS Pure Sine Wave Inverters.

I'll try to address all points. The system uses 4 aa batteries for backup, so yes, you could run it directly.However one of the added features of the alarm is to use modules that will turn off and on lights, etc.It also has the ability to telephone in from another location and turn these modules off and on.As stated in the manual, "you must use the the power adapter as it contains circuitry required to control the modules". So I could run directly, but it would limit the features of the system.
Yes, the MSW is a 'half voltage scheme.If it's pluged into a wall outlet,it's get slightly warm, one plugeed into the inverter, very hot in a short period of time.So, do you think the problem is because of the Modified Sine Wave, or the fact, that it's a half voltage scheme? Thanks
 
351 Posts
Aug 21, 2009 12:28 pm
Re: Modified sine Wave VS Pure Sine Wave Inverters.

"So, do you think the problem is because of the Modified Sine Wave, or the fact, that it's a half voltage scheme?"

There isn't enough data to really make that call.  Thats why you might want to call the tech support group. Or, try testing the device in various inverters if you want to sort out the problem.

Otherwise, just insure that the new PSW is not a half voltage scheme.

 
Aug 21, 2009 02:50 pm
Re: Modified sine Wave VS Pure Sine Wave Inverters.

"I'm putting together an alarm system for my remote off-grid cabin" - "the added features of the alarm is to use modules that will turn off and on lights, etc.It also has the ability to telephone in from another location and turn these modules off and on."

So, a remote off grid cabin in a high crime area, or at least high enough to warrant a security system with all of those features. Remarkable. What is that word that is used for phrases like; jumbo shrimp, and pretty ugly? Anyway, thats what this sounds like to me. No offense intended Paul Smith. It probably comes from my having spent almost a lifetime of sleeping at night with nothing but a screen door between me and the other 6.5 billion other humans on this God forsaken planet. Now if it was say, the Bronx or someplace like that sure but a remote cabin? You should have more to fear from critters than people. But thats just me. I forget sometimes that not everybody is as cavalier as others.
Just the other day I went to tighten the lugs on the main breaker at a fellas house with my hex wrench set and I though somebody had stuck him with an ice pick the way he howled. I told him, I said, "Relax, I have on rubber soled shoes and I know what is and isn't potential to current, I do it all the time." His reply was, "Well, if you want to kill yourself I am not gonna watch." I was glad he left. He made me nervous!
I guess what I am trying to say here is, is the potential for crime really that bad at your remote off grid cabin? I mean most people go remote to get away from all of that kind of stuff. Is there no place safe left on Earth? 

Anyway, to get back to your system.
"you must use the the power adapter as it contains circuitry required to control the modules".
I take it that this system use X10 technology, correct? And it uses the vac to do the switching while it uses the vdc for motion sensors and such? It would seem that it still has a vdc relay the "triggers" the X10. Other than the power adapter getting hot, does the system work ok? I mean, I don't see how this could work at all if the lights and all are powered by one inverter but the security system is power by a different inverter. But of course I don't know what kind of system you have yet.
There are many "pure" sine waves (Which is really stepped, theres just so many steps it can be called "pure.") of low wattages but as Ken Hall pointed out, you may have to experiment to find the right inverter. The manufactures are not going to tell us if its "half voltage" or not. The only way to obtain a "true" sine wave is with a rotating or spinning force, a.k.a, AC generator. Otherwise you may have to look a other security systems that do not require alternating current.
 

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