Help with Electrical component of turbine

4 Posts
Jun 25, 2009 01:50 pm
Help with Electrical component of turbine

Hey,

I am working on a vertical axis water turbine for my thesis project, and I am running into some problems trying to convert the mechanical energy of the spinning turbine into electricity. The turbine will be completely submerged in the water and the flow rate is about 1 m/s.
The turbine will be 1 meter tall and .75 meters in diameter, and at the water velocity we are expecting that is about 200 watts. We would like the turbine to charge standard 12 volt car batteries. What is the cheapest way to actually set up an electrical system like this.
Thanks in advance for the help!
-Renaldo
 
Jun 26, 2009 04:05 am
Re: Help with Electrical component of turbine

I have always equated cheapness with lack of quality. But I know what it is your asking. It would seem that cheapness has become synonymous with being inexpensive, as has quality with expensive. But enough with the semantics.

I take it that the turbine will turn pretty much non stop, producing power non stop unless acted upon by an external force. This being the case, a load diversion regulator could be made relatively inexpensively. It sould to be able to monitor battery voltage, high and low as well as trigger a relay transfer. Any number of loads could do the job from 12 vdc water heater elements to 12 vdc incandescent light bulbs. What happens though if a light bulb blows? I don't want to take all of the fun out of it so I'll provide a few links to hopefully get you started in the right direction.
http://www.survivalunlimited.com/diversionloads.htm
http://www.fieldlines.com/
This last link has tons of info but it may take some leg work or, maybe I should say "finger" work? No, something doesn't sound right about that. I am gonna stick to leg work. Anyway look closely, there are links to other links and so on and so forth. Good luck!
 
4 Posts
Jun 26, 2009 09:29 am
Re: Help with Electrical component of turbine

The project is kind of for international development. So cost is a big issue for us.

Would the load diversion regulator actually generate electricity though or does it just make sure the electricity we generate wont destroy a battery. I am sorry, I am just a newbie when it comes to this. I was expecting you to say something more along the lines of a DC motor or generator to use. We were also looking at car alternators. Do you have any advice on those devices?
 
28 Posts
Jun 26, 2009 09:57 am
Re: Help with Electrical component of turbine

Renaldo,

please contact me at johnwhass @ aol.com; I may be able to help you with your project.
 
351 Posts
Jun 26, 2009 02:27 pm
Re: Help with Electrical component of turbine

First of all, discard the idea of a car alternator.  They are only about 55% efficient in converting mechanical power to electricity. They also require a high RPM. Your gearing losses will be tremendous.  While junkyard alternators can be used when you have excess shaft hp available, I don’t think you don’t have any margin to spare.

As far as off the shelf items, your best bet would be a PM (permanent magnet) DC motor. Look for one with a low rpm rating. That will help keep your gearing losses down.
(from your limited description of your turbine, I suspect that you have a low RPM on the turbine shaft.)

Another course would be to build your own PM alternator. There are a number of examples on the fieldlines site that Thomas referenced.  Another is Hugh Piggott’s site. 
http://www.scoraigwind.com/
Or, Google away.

While car batteries will work for the purpose of your thesis, they are not suitable for storing any significant amount of power for an alternative energy project.  One of the biggest stumbling blocks is the cost of decent batteries.  No matter how inexpensive a power source is, the cost of energy storage will usually kill it, when you are competing for those rare development dollars.

A diversion load does not generate any power.  It burns excess power, to keep that excess from smoking the batteries.  A diversion load would be a necessity, if your thesis ever moves into the real world.

You might consider modifying your project.  If you designed an inexpensive positive displacement water pump, which could be powered by your turbine, it might have greater application.  Moving water without an associated fuel cost, is one of the larger problems in many developing nations.
 
4 Posts
Jun 26, 2009 03:31 pm
Re: Help with Electrical component of turbine

How low of an RPM should I be looking for? Also how can I calculate what my theoretical RPM should be from the dimensions of my turbine and the expect flow? This will let me know what to order
 
351 Posts
Jun 26, 2009 04:51 pm
Re: Help with Electrical component of turbine

How you calculate rpm is dependant on the design of the turbine and the design flow speed, which you stated is about 1 m/s.
If this is some type of shrouded water wheel, it is linked to the circumference of the turbine wheel. If this is a true turbine (e.g. Pelton) it depends on how much acceleration you have in the nozzle, and the circumference of the wheel.  If it is a propeller design, it would be linked to pitch of the blades and circumference.
You need to get the unloaded or theoretical rpm, before arriving at the loaded rpm. The loaded rpm of the shaft and generator output curve determine how much gearing you will need.

How did you arrive at your 200 watts (which I presume are mechanical), if you don't know the rpm ??
 
4 Posts
Jun 26, 2009 09:02 pm
Re: Help with Electrical component of turbine

What is the formula for the propeller design?

I got the power by saying: Power(watts) = Efficiency*(.5)*density of fluid*velocity^3*Area swept out by the turbine
 
351 Posts
Jun 27, 2009 01:20 am
Re: Help with Electrical component of turbine

Have you ever heard of the Betz limit ?
You might want to compare that to your effeciency.

Anway, the 200 watts is real close to the exploitable potential of kinetic energy in the flow. You are not going to get anywhere close to that as shaft power, particularly at the slow flow speed.

Somehow I think you picked a thesis subject that was fairly far removed from your study area.
 

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