Flaky Phocos charge controller and USB datalogger?

20 Posts
Mar 21, 2007 07:15 pm
Flaky Phocos charge controller and USB datalogger?

Here is a condensed version of a message I sent to the Phocos e-mail - and they haven't replied.  I bought the Phocos system and most of the equipment through altenergy store a couple months ago.
If anybody has any hint to make this work, that would be great.  Maybe I should ask for a warranty replacement, but I'd like to try and solve this to see if I can make it work in the remote locations where I usually work..
Thanks,

Here are technical support questions about a simple off-grid system using the CX10 charge controller, with the CXI and CXCOM datalogging system.
The rest of the system includes one 75Wp 12V nominal panel (20V Voc), a 72 Ah deep cycle battery, and a simple load demonstration panel with 2 12V 50W light bulbs and one 12V (1W) LED that can be independently switched on and off.  The load is usually turned off, so the current should mostly go to charge the battery.

I purchased one of your controllers for testing and for class use.  I also teach classes on PV design and installation in the US, and I would like to be able to show real data collected through your datalogger.  I would also like to equip some of the systems we install with such data logging capability. 
However, the Phocos system I purchased only worked for two days!

The hardware was purchased in the USA recently, and delivered to me mid-February.

1) Software problem
I downloaded the driver and software from your web site on January 24, 2007, and installed it on my Windows XP laptops after receiving the hardware.
Following the instruction documents, there was no problem to make it all work initially.

After two days where data was collected and communicated well to the PC, on the third day I started getting "charge controller not found"
messages. 

I tried uninstalling and re-installing the drivers, rebooting, etc.  I even used the Windows XP "system restore" capability, because Windows and McAfee had done automatic updates of my system.

The Device Manager shows the port installed on COM4, and the CXCOM software also showed using COM4.
Every time I plug or unplug the CXI on a USB port, I hear the sound telling me that my PC system is detecting a USB device.

I tried unplugging and re-plugging the green connector in the CX10.

At this point, I don't know what else to do to try and make this work.

Can you please help me recover the functionality of the system?

If that helps, I can send you the last data file that I collected.


2) Charge controller usage question
It seems that, if I disconnect the battery wires from the controller without disconnecting the PV side first, it looks like the whole thing freezes in something like the LVD state (even if the battery voltage is well above LVD).  No current flows to the battery or the load.  I then have to disconnect and reconnect the PV side in order to get the battery side and load to function again.  And during that time, the LCD displays flashing pictures that are not documented in the user manual.
All I wanted to do was insert a multimeter on one of the battery wires to validate the current reading in Amperes.

Am I missing something?
 
578 Posts
Mar 21, 2007 09:43 pm
Re: Flaky Phocos charge controller and USB datalogger?

bummer to hear about the system, you asked a ton of good questions and I'll try to dig in to some tomorrow.

for the sake of others, disconnecting the battery side of the charge controller with the pv still attached in daylight can destroy some controllers, and is a general no-no.  hopefully that is not the case for you, but if you did it during daylight, I fear the worst. 

disconnect switches (circuit breakers) can save many from this problem, if pv to controller has is disconnected (with breaker) and controller to battery is disconnected (with breaker) then nothing is live, you can insert your ammeter, then flip the switches, and everything is cool.

- james - Alt-E staff

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/

Tel: 877.878.4060 x107  or +1.978.562.5858 x107
Fax: 877.242.6718  or +1.978.562.5854
 
20 Posts
Mar 22, 2007 02:16 pm
Re: Flaky Phocos charge controller and USB datalogger?

Thanks James for this precious insight.
In the past, I've mostly seen Morningstar and don't recall this being an issue.  Also, I didn't see any warning against that in the Phocos instructions, or in the Morningstar (either SHS or SS models).
It's particularly interesting because I have seen (myself or in pictures) a lot of so-called "solar home systems (SHS) in Latin America and Thailand; they usually do not have circuit breakers (or screwdrivers laying around to disconnect the controller), and you can be sure that people do take batteries away on a regular basis.  Not just every few years when they need replacement, but for example to bring to parties and power sound systems.  I have seen and heard of old controllers being blown away by reverse polarity (re-)connection, so I always insist on having that as an electronic protection when choosing a controller (not a thermal fuse which remote users can't find replacement for).  And I have seen plenty of disablled old controllers where people didn't know what had happened.  But I don't recall ever seeing a warning posted anywhere for the users that before disconnecting the battery they need to disconnect the panels.  I will institutionalize it now wherever I work. 
Phocos did respond today saying disconnection needed to happen in reverse order of connection, but without warning against any damage otherwise.  They have so many protections built in, I would have thought that was included.

If you have any clout with vendors, I would recommend you tell them to add it in bold letters in their owner's instructions.

Thanks again - and I am curious about the other points you said you would address later.
 
20 Posts
Mar 22, 2007 02:18 pm
Re: Flaky Phocos charge controller and USB datalogger?

Forgot to say that indeed I disconnected mine during daylight, but with our wonderful Pacific Northwest winter, it was rainy or overcast, and not much juice present, so hopefully my controller is OK from that standpoint.
 
578 Posts
Mar 23, 2007 12:27 pm
Re: Flaky Phocos charge controller and USB datalogger?

we contacted phocos.  they are on it and I expect to have more details soon.

regarding the connection order, the sunsaver has big numbers over the terminals to remind folks what to connect first.  check out the numbers in the squares.

see the pic here - http://gallery.altenergystore.com/James-Cormican-gallery/v/8674952267/?g2_page=2

- james - Alt-E staff

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/

Tel: 877.878.4060 x107  or +1.978.562.5858 x107
Fax: 877.242.6718  or +1.978.562.5854
 
20 Posts
Mar 23, 2007 01:18 pm
Re: Flaky Phocos charge controller and USB datalogger?

Hi James,

Thanks for following up.
Yes, Both the SS and SHS have numbers on the connections.  And the Phocos also provides a connection order.
However:
Here is what the SS manual says (sorry I didn't manage to paste in a snapshot):
"the label has each system connection numbered from 1 to 6.  This is the recommended order of system connections.  However, a different order will not damage the controller"
And later in the operation section:
"If the battery is disconnected during the daytime, the PV array will continue to provide power to the controller.  The SunSaver will immediately go into PWM and provide power at a constant voltage to the load.  This may continue as long as power is available from the PV array".

Maybe I've installed too many SS-10's and generalized this to other controllers.   The SHS installation manual, which is much skimpier, also uses the terms "recommended order of connection", without coments on what happens if it's not followed, and doesn't comment on disconnecting the battery during PV operation.

My intention is not to be on the defensive here, but simply to educate - both the readers of this forum and the manufacturers; and to minimize problems for remote users who don't have access to vendors.  I spent more than 10 years in various functions within service & support engineering departments at HP, for consumer products.  I also trained engineers and call center personnel.  I reviewed a lot of user manuals, and lived with warranty bills for product damage due to poor user instructions.
Believe me, if a product manual doesn't have a clear warning (including some clear symbol) that some action may damage the product, that action will happen.  People who don't read instructions can't be helped much, but at least when an outsider (installer, NGO, volunteer, etc.) installs a PV system on a hut or in a village school, some training is (or should be) generally provided, and user instructions are left behind.  If the product manual doesn't give any warning, no warning will be given to the user, and anything can happen.  There are too many failed PV systems out there in the 3d world, which unfortunately give renewable energies a bad name.  So everything any one of us can do to make the equipment more "bullet-proof" is helping to foster the cause. 
Enough for my soap box Smiley

Thanks for your help, and maybe we'll help save the planet.

Michel
 
578 Posts
Mar 23, 2007 01:26 pm
Re: Flaky Phocos charge controller and USB datalogger?

oh yeah, i hope i did not come off as a jerk, i just had the controller around so i took the photo.

i know a little, but i could stand to learn a ton more.  everybody around wants more RE out there and working.  the forum is a good way to distribute info, but the format may make it seem like I have some authority, which couldn't be further from the truth.  I'm just one guy that loves this stuff and the more folks we get contributing their info, the better the community is for it.  so thanks much for sharing your problem, and insight.


- james

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/

Tel: 877.878.4060 x107  or +1.978.562.5858 x107
Fax: 877.242.6718  or +1.978.562.5854
 
578 Posts
Mar 23, 2007 01:28 pm
Re: Flaky Phocos charge controller and USB datalogger?

here is what james from phocos had to say:



Thanks for passing this on to me.  To my knowledge, we did not receive an email to our local address from your customer regarding these complaints. That would lead me to believe that the customer contacted the headquarters in Germany.  Normally this would not be an issue, but, I think that most of the support engineers in Germany are currently working on many other projects (new product testing etc.) and perhaps they may be a bit slow in responding to support requests.  I apologize for that.

I think it may make some sense to direct technical questions that require the customer to contact the manufacturer to our general email here in the US (info-usa @ phocos.com). We're pretty good at getting a response out the same day.  We generally can answer most questions locally, but, if for some reason we can't, I think we can get a response from our colleagues in Germany quicker than if the customer emails tech support in Germany themselves.

For this question, I do need to contact the software engineers in Germany to answer adequately.  I hope to have the situation rectified by the end of the week.

Thanks again!!


Sincerely


James Polcyn, Sales & Marketing Director

Phocos USA
742 E. 46th Street
Tucson, AZ 85713
USA
Phone: 520.882.9100

--------------

james cormican - Alt-E staff

AltE
"Making Renewable Do-able"
http://www.altEstore.com/

Tel: 877.878.4060 x107  or +1.978.562.5858 x107
Fax: 877.242.6718  or +1.978.562.5854
 
20 Posts
Mar 23, 2007 05:44 pm
Re: Phocos charge controller with USB datalogger

Hello James,

Thanks to you and James Polcyn.  I did receive a reply from a support person in Germany, within 48 hours of my initial message.  I used the only e-mail address provided in the software users documentation.

I just now replied to Phocos with the details of all my latest attempts with the datalogger, and this time copied info-usa.  Whoever wants to follow up is fine.  Hopefully  we'll get this solved and will be able to recommend this equipment for future projects.

By the way, the Peruvian ministry of energy, who bought more than 4,000 similar charge controllers for isolated solar home systems scheduled to be installed as we speak, obtained from the vendor a custom version with the datalogger built-in. I believe this is with Phocos.  Any info if this custom version might be made into a standard product and made available to the general public?
 

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