Charging Batteries with generator problems - suggestions?

2 Posts
Oct 29, 2008 05:53 pm
Charging Batteries with generator problems - suggestions?

I have a fairly simple system, 4 120 Watt kyocera panels running in parellel through an Outback 4500 watt inverter to charge the batteries which are 8 trojen 6 volt batteries in series for a 24 volt systme.  The inverter has the capacity to have AC in for charging the batteries when they get low.  The problem I'm having currently is that when I run the generator, which is a Craftsman 5000 Watt, the batteries charge for a while and when the voltage gets to about 26 volts (after about 15 minutes of charging) the 30 amp circut breaker on the generator trips and it stops charging the system.  I don't know if it has something to do with the generator itself or if the charge controller is pulling more than 30 amps and causing the breaker to trip.  Any suggestions for testing the system for troubleshooting or other suggestions for fixing the problem would be helpful.
Thanks and Aloha
Eric
 
351 Posts
Oct 30, 2008 12:34 pm
Re: Charging Batteries with generator problems - suggestions?

What is the model number of your inverter ?
What is the connection between the generator and the inverter ?  Please provide both wire size and length.
Where are you measuring the 26 volts ?

 
2 Posts
Nov 3, 2008 08:44 pm
Re: Charging Batteries with generator problems - suggestions?

Ken,
Thanks for the questions.
I've got a Outback MX60 MPPT Charge Controller that is connected to an Outback FX 2024/MT 2.0kW 24VDC inverter.  The generator is connected via a 220 outlet from the generator with a plug that has about 8 feet of 12 gage wiring.  The wiring plugs directly into the generator's 220volt 30 amp plug and then is hard wired into the inverter's ACin ports.  This has been working fine up until the generator's motor was replaced recently with a 10 1/2 hp motor.  The original motor was only 10 hp.  On the charge controller, there is a readout showing the battery voltage and amps out.  This is where I'm measuring the 26 volts. 
Thanks for any input.
Eric
 
220 Posts
Nov 3, 2008 11:15 pm
Re: Charging Batteries with generator problems - suggestions?

 hi guys,

  eric, i'm not sure we understand your ac wiring to the fx2024. did you say it's hard wired with 220vac from the generator plug? or are you just trying to use one leg of that 220 line for the inverters 110ac input? or could it be the fx2024/et model which needs 230vac input? sounds weird..sorry to ask more questions. is this the same cord you were using and the same hard wire setup to inverter input as before the generator was repaired? it seems like perhaps one of the legs of that 220vac gen output was down before the new motor was installed (only giving 110vac) and now it's back working again and trying to feed the 2024 with 220vac? did they even make the fx2024 with a 220vac input? as far as i can tell we want to go from the genset to the inverter with a standard three prong 110vac cord hardwired into the inverter 110vac input.
 
 sorry if this all sounds like crazy talk, but i don't know what else to think.

 we have to recheck our generator output and the inverter input.

 interesting.
« Last Edit: Nov 3, 2008 11:41 pm by david ames »
 
351 Posts
Nov 4, 2008 01:20 pm
Re: Charging Batteries with generator problems - suggestions?

Assuming that you are using one leg of the 220v outlet and that all of your inverter settings are at or near defaults, my first question would be have you broken the neutral/ground bond in the generator. 

If not, I would break that bond and try charging to see if that might solve your problem.

Ken

PS The next time you are bulk charging from the generator, try taking voltage readings from each of your 115V duplex outlets. Those readings may help us figure out/explain what is happening.
« Last Edit: Nov 4, 2008 02:34 pm by ken hall »
 
19 Posts
Nov 15, 2008 10:02 am
Re: Charging Batteries with generator problems - suggestions?

I have similar situation; my Kohler 12RES propane air cooled took a dive and I replaced it with a Generac 15KW.  I am feeding the inverter with 240V line from Genset. However, my breaker soon trips. 

Query: should I use the 110 volt line, 30 amp instead.

System: 28 kyoceras
2 OUTBACK inverters VFX3648, 3.6 kW, 120 VAC,
2 mx charge controllers
240 splitter for well pump

since the inverter is 120 vac, seems logical I should be using 120 to feed same even though my well pump requires 240.
« Last Edit: Nov 15, 2008 10:07 am by William Clark »
 
14 Posts
Nov 25, 2008 08:10 pm
Re: Charging Batteries with generator problems - suggestions?

I was reading thru my Outback manuals, and it says Outback doesn't recommend using anything but a "Prime Power" generator connected to their stuff.  I take it "Prime Power" is a REALLY GOOD generator, not a cheaper one like you have.....they said they were getting inverters back as bad that weren't bad....it was the fluctuation in the power produced by the cheaper generators that were the problem.
 
19 Posts
Nov 25, 2008 08:54 pm
Re: Charging Batteries with generator problems - suggestions?

thanks for the put down, but I spent 2600 for my new genset. and have solved the problem by using the 50 amp port. you have not qualified cheaper gensets in your post. do you care to qualify or are you more interested in putting someone down..

Please enlighten the rest of us and tell us what make, model, fuel type and KW capacity your generator is...that is if you even have one...more than likely you are on grid.
« Last Edit: Nov 26, 2008 07:15 am by William Clark »
 
220 Posts
Nov 25, 2008 10:39 pm
Re: Charging Batteries with generator problems - suggestions?


  hello william,

  good to hear you have solved the problem.

 out of curiosity and for future reference for those searching the forum topics with a similar question, can we review your configuration?

does this sound right?
-genset ground and neutral bond broken @ generator.
-240 ac out from a 2pole 50a breaker.
-L1 of output to designated master inverter.
-L2 of output to designated slave inverter.
-master inverter ground and neutral bonded with jumper.
-slave inverter ground and neutral with no jumper.
-genset ground to system ground?
-no neutral from genset?

 thanks for the update and any added info for future reference.

best regards,
 
19 Posts
Nov 26, 2008 07:07 am
Re: Charging Batteries with generator problems - suggestions?


  hello william,

  good to hear you have solved the problem.

 out of curiosity and for future reference for those searching the forum topics with a similar question, can we review your configuration?

does this sound right?
-genset ground and neutral bond broken @ generator.
-240 ac out from a 2pole 50a breaker.
-L1 of output to designated master inverter.
-L2 of output to designated slave inverter.
-master inverter ground and neutral bonded with jumper.
-slave inverter ground and neutral with no jumper.
-genset ground to system ground?
-no neutral from genset?

 thanks for the update and any added info for future reference.

best regards,

#1no knowledge, bec. my solar installer configured system with previous genset.

#2 either 120 or 240 for loads up to 12KW and surge to 15KW

both inverters show charge yellow light on when genset running at max.  will not charge with genset in slow rpm and shows a red flashing light.

with no substantial house load, eg pool pump, well pump, washer, 1.5 kw water heater...19 gal., genset will start to vary speed and sound ever so slightly, once the load is removed.

the rest, see #1;

I can see I have a lot of learning to do. Wish I knew more about it. 

We are starting our annual winter rains in So. AZ just now so am using genset more often now to keep batts above 80 percent charge due to extreme cloud cover. Yesterday at peak solar gen. time, system would only gen. 500 watts...this is from a 3.6kw solar system.

They are forecasting an inch of rain here so at least my panels will get a good washing.  Dust cover on panels will impede the solar gen. up to 50% in my 4 years experience on solar only.

« Last Edit: Nov 26, 2008 07:09 am by William Clark »
 
14 Posts
Nov 26, 2008 04:17 pm
Re: Charging Batteries with generator problems - suggestions?

Ah, William.....

That wasn't a "put down", merely passing on TO THE THREAD what I read in the Outback literature in an attempt to help locate the source of problems.  I used the term "cheaper generator" to differentiate what OUTBACK calls a "PRIME POWER" generator. 

In fact, my reference was more to the original poster with a Craftsman 5kw unit, which I would definitely NOT consider a "primer power" unit, but more a temporary use generator.


When I "put you down", as I NOW am, you'll be quite aware of being taken to the woodshed.  I'll make it a point to avoid giving you any help in the future, sir....and you have a dandy day.
« Last Edit: Nov 26, 2008 04:34 pm by Andy Davenport »
 
19 Posts
Nov 26, 2008 07:13 pm
Re: Charging Batteries with generator problems - suggestions?

Ah, William.....

That wasn't a "put down", merely passing on TO THE THREAD what I read in the Outback literature in an attempt to help locate the source of problems.  I used the term "cheaper generator" to differentiate what OUTBACK calls a "PRIME POWER" generator. 

In fact, my reference was more to the original poster with a Craftsman 5kw unit, which I would definitely NOT consider a "primer power" unit, but more a temporary use generator.


When I "put you down", as I NOW am, you'll be quite aware of being taken to the woodshed.  I'll make it a point to avoid giving you any help in the future, sir....and you have a dandy day.


whatever, dude
 

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