Hello.. with a IDEA..

1 Posts
Oct 22, 2008 03:50 pm
Hello.. with a IDEA..


While driving the other day I thought of a idea.
Keep in mind I know nothing about wind power,alternators, or charging batteries.
 I saw the other day on a television channel, a electric car. Something like this
http://www.wrightspeed.com/x1.html
http://www.fastcoolcars.com/2008-tesla-electric-car.htm

My idea is this..
If you can imagine kind of like the air foils on the sides of a jet.
Designing a car with min of 6-8 small air foils. 3 of them on each side, 2 on the front like a hood scoop.
Behind the foils, placing small vertical Axis Wind Turbines. Wouldn't they re charge the batteries as you drive. Using the wind the car produced while driving forward? In return again keeping the batteries re charged?
Would this method produce enough energy? Has it been tried?
http://www.pacwind.net/images/alpha-2-lg.jpg
of coarse not as big as this one. But the same type of design, behind each foil just a lot smaller..


 
184 Posts
Oct 22, 2008 04:31 pm
Re: Hello.. with a IDEA..

The wind turbine would create drag, more than offsetting the electrical energy it produces.  For it do otherwise would be considered perpetual motion. However, a stationary windmill, used to charge batteries, which in turn could be used to charge an electric car, would work.  You could drive on free energy, created by the wind, or solar panels for that matter, but it would take a lot of them.   
 
Oct 23, 2008 01:12 pm
Re: Hello.. with a IDEA..

Nice idea.  I had same thought about 5 years ago.  I was thinking of more of a hood scoop or ram air type of thing that fed wind as the car moved - bumping up the wind "pressure".  The turbine would have to be enclosed/encapsulated and be very small (so that it was completely mounted under the hood.  Not sure I agree with the previous post that the drag would more than offset the energy produced. Wind turbines are getting to be pretty efficient (although not small enough for this application).  Guess if the drag can't be overcome in terms of energy produced, we should take the turbo/super chargers off all of our cars!  Although I suppose the extra boost from those does more than offset any additional drag - big time!

"For it do otherwise would be considered perpetual motion."  Are you sure? I'm not, convince me.  Although I suppose there is a reason why we don't do this now.  Maybe the Japanese government can fund another Prius and test it out!  GE builds great turbines (jet engines), maybe they could do it!

 
97 Posts
Oct 24, 2008 01:23 am
Re: Hello.. with a IDEA..

One of the indisputable laws of physics states that Energy cannot be created or destroyed......It can only change form.  So where does the energy created by a vehicle mounted wind generator come from?.........It comes from the energy that you put into the engine to power the car (gasoline).  You have to supply power to push air through the turbine, increasing drag, and then through inefficiencies in converting the wind to electricity, you have losses, therefore getting less power from the turbine than you are supplying with the gas energy.  This is rather a no brainer.  A turbo charger (as i understand it) uses waste exhaust pressure to spin a turbine which raises the compression of the normally horribly inefficient, and underaspirated gas engine and causes it to produce more power, and also to burn more gas (since the gas/air ratio for combustion is a constant).  Again, you don't get something for nothing.   The real advantage with a wind generator is taking the energy from mother earth.........I never got a bill from her for windage, or for geothermal gains. :-)
 
Nov 7, 2008 01:30 pm
Re: Hello.. with a IDEA..

Hey Jon C.  I understand what you are saying for sure.  I am not hypthesizing to run a vehicle completely from this, that makes no sense.  Yeah and the super/turbo charger does use exhaust gases, but super chargers also cool incoming combustion air as well.  It just seems to me, since we already funnel in combustion air (passing it through an air filter to boot), then we ought to be able to do something with a car going 60 MPH down the road.  I've have not spent any time looking into the physics of it, nor more than about 20 minutes thinking about it, since I assumed (probably correctly) that if it could have been done, it already would have.

Tony
 
Nov 8, 2008 05:21 am
Re: Hello.. with a IDEA..

http://www.evalbum.com/build
I have often kicked around the idea of setting several smaller electric motors in a radial pattern around a central heavy steel flywheel that in turn drives the axle. Maybe six motors with small pneumatic tires making contact with the flywheel. Wired in such a way as to make all 6 available at full "throttle" but as highway speeds are reached and "throttle" demand lessens fewer motors are utilized. The rest going into free spin. Of course regenerative braking would work the same way. As well, hydraulic pump/motor/reservoir systems may or may not be an advantage. The air system you mention could be used as added regenerative braking. As an example, mountain driving, there is always the trip down the other side where all of these regenerative braking implements could come into play. Just ideas though. I guess the real big idea here would be, who's going to pay for it all? It sounds harsh but I am only being realistic. Something I learned from a friend. http://www.cloudelectric.com/home
 In the mean time though, here is somethings for us to drool over, I mean if your into this sort of thing and all.
http://www.teslamotors.com/
http://www.nedra.com/
 
4 Posts
Nov 8, 2008 04:23 pm
Re: Hello.. with a IDEA..

 Dear Anthony,

I think Jon explained things well in his post.

Here's another way of thinking about it.

One of the best ways of increasing fuel efficiency of a car is to reduce its drag.  Adding turbines does the opposite. 

And as Jon said, you're creating forward motion by burning gas, the turbines make it more difficult to move the car and will never be 100% efficient to recapture the spent gas.

The energy I'd like to see captured more efficiently is the energy wasted stopping a car. When you step on the brakes, the energy of forward momentum is dissipated as waste heat by the brakes.

It's fun to read everyone's interesting thoughts on this

Jake

http://www.AlternativeEnergyPrimer.com
 

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